More crazy

Jane

New member
Just read this steaming pile of WTF:

"Bellydance is **ancient** - far more ancient than many are aware - and a **natural** way of dancing that doesn't require ANYONE else's approval to claim it. Natural as in, it's in our body's wisdom. And no one claim ownership over that for anyone but their own self. I know I am in the smallest minority when I say this. Women and men are claiming bellydance as their dance, and it's their birthright. I am chiming in on this in a public way, because as an untrained dancer who has only practiced on her own and is setting out to empower other people to find their own dance and express freely, I would like to spread the message that our own hearts and bodies owns our dance - no one and nothing can claim that ownership or authority, no matter how emotional they feel in reaction to someone expressing freely It's not just **your** dance, claimed as a traditionally-trained performer and teacher. Bellydance is OUR dance as PEOPLE All-inclusive. You might have a set of ideas of what bellydance looks like, but it is much more diverse and beautiful than what you may be imagining."
 

Darshiva

Moderator
I knew I'd read that before! I was just reading that thread on fb before coming over here. :rolleyes:

The crazy was so strong on that one I blocked it lest I have accidental exposure to it on my feed!
 
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Jane

New member
Ha ha! It was too good not to share over here.

I have decided to claim neurosurgery as my ancient birthright! So don't tell me I need any training :lol:
 

Kashmir

New member
:yay: All bananas are inherently wise and by claiming their bodies they can express they true joy of belly dance.
 

Jane

New member
It was on Facebook. The user has either been removed or left that group and her posts disappeared with her. Quote was saved for posterity. I wish the quote poster had stayed; she never answered my question about where she got her information or why she believed the things she said. I think it would have been useful to know, so it can be stopped or refuted at the source. There is so much BS out there it's unbelievable.
 

Darshiva

Moderator
I have one of the Dolphina books and that looks like part of the intro bit.

Don't judge me, I collect bellydance books! ;)
 

Aniseteph

New member
I think this stuff just floats about on the ether, waiting for new believers to either pull it out of their own psyche or find validation on the web. No need for learning any tricky stuff, no years of practice, no cultural background necessary, no need to get into that weird foreign music if you don't want to... no wonder people go for it. What I don't get is how they can keep it up in the face of experience - don't they eventually look at their untaught self in the mirror/ video clip and think "ummm, something is not quite right about this".? Or are they off onto the next thing before the horrible truth hits?

This was my favourite bit:
You might have a set of ideas of what bellydance looks like, but it is much more diverse and beautiful than what you may be imagining.
Well yes,after nearly 10 years I'm afraid I do have a set of ideas of what belly dance does and doesn't look like, and the idea of my blinkered horizons being opened out and seeing the belly dance light through the contributions of the untrained masses claiming their birthright (WTH?) quite frankly gives me a severe case of the sceptical LOLs. Sounds like the hafla from hell to me.
 

Jane

New member
Don't judge me, I collect bellydance books! ;)
I have one of her books too. I'll have to re-read that part :) Logically, why would someone who claims you don't need to be taught or told anything about belly dance bother to buy a book on it? Belly Dancing by Pina Coluccia is another inaccurate book I own :)
 

Jane

New member
No need for learning any tricky stuff, no years of practice, no cultural background necessary, no need to get into that weird foreign music if you don't want to... no wonder people go for it. What I don't get is how they can keep it up in the face of experience - don't they eventually look at their untaught self in the mirror/ video clip and think "ummm, something is not quite right about this".? Or are they off onto the next thing before the horrible truth hits?

Because they are saving it from those awful Muslims who don't deserve their own dance. It's up to them to bring it back to how it originally was for wymin in the ancient times. Or something or other. :/
 

Aniseteph

New member
If people want to shake their butts or stand there snake-arming in the name of ancient goddess self expression, great. Just don't call it belly dance when you know b****r all about belly dance. If you do this in other genres of pretty much anything you get called on it and sticking to your ignorance just makes you look crazy. Oh yeah, speaking French is in my soul so I just do it and all you French-speakers can't tell me I'm not doing it right when I talk gibberish in a French-ish accent, 'cos that's oppression. :confused:

I guess it's easier to shut your ears and go la la la I'm not listening with belly dance. It's easy to ignore those foreigners, and non-native teachers just aren't in tune with their natural birthright, obviously. Or with how Art Evolves. :rolleyes:
 

Jane

New member
I really think we're living through the great belly dance divergence. One one side we have those who insist that belly dance has specific Middle Eastern cultural parameters and the ones who insist it is not tied to any culture at all. Of course we have folks that fall in the grey areas too. People who identify as belly dancers are becoming more fragmented. I go look at ITS pages/sites/videos and don't even know who most of the people are anymore. Betting it's the same for them too. Within the next ten years we're going to see a lot of changes.
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
It's racist. Period. That's like white people saying they were born to rule. No one is born owning anything. And I'd say it to this person's face.
 

Sophia Maria

New member
I really think we're living through the great belly dance divergence. One one side we have those who insist that belly dance has specific Middle Eastern cultural parameters and the ones who insist it is not tied to any culture at all. Of course we have folks that fall in the grey areas too. People who identify as belly dancers are becoming more fragmented. I go look at ITS pages/sites/videos and don't even know who most of the people are anymore. Betting it's the same for them too. Within the next ten years we're going to see a lot of changes.
I really think so as well. I was ranting about this to my mom the other night (it's a good thing she likes me, because she gets to sit through all these rants).

I guess I'm kind of a purist. And don't get me wrong, I like me a good tribal fusion (not as cray about the ATS, personally). But for me it was fairly simple: I fell in love with Middle Eastern Music, specifically Arab music, often Egyptian music. Thus I decided to dedicate my time toMiddle Eastern dance, mostly raqs sharqi, and other folklore. There's no way I could begin to fully understand my area of study unless I recognized the cultural and historical ties it has, and learning them.

To me, tribal can be incredibly beautiful, but I think what is interesting is that in recent years it has started to become a dance form all on its own. It pulls from a lot of different things, but honestly, in the future I could see it just being a separate and independent school of dance. Kind of how modern dancers drew from ballet but rejected many of its constraints--today modern still incorporates many ballet movements, but it is its own dance form. Is this a fair comparison? :think:
 

gisela

Super Moderator
At an event I was doing a heavy saidi dance with a white galabeia and a thick straight assaya. Some ATS dancers were intrigued and found it very interesting. " You don't really see people dance with sticks like that". Eeeh.. What?!
 

Jane

New member
The dancing with sticks situation makes me sad :(

There is nothing wrong with dropping the belly dance label if you want to stretch your dance aesthetic. Yup, that's what happened to ballet and modern. People still like to perform and do both. Why box yourself in? Marketing? Self exoticism? I don't know.

I got my "Belly Dance Around the World" book yesterday. One of the chapters was "Use of Nostalgia in Tribal Fusion Dance." What I took away from it is that ITS dancers see themselves doing a retro American Oriental dance with a modern twist. That's the basis for still calling it belly dance. There was mention of TF dancers not using Arabic music, but I don't remember how she explained that other than Americans not connecting with it. I am not sure if the author thinks that American women (I believe it was North American-centric) who are trying to dance in the ethnic styles are succeeding at that goal. I'll have to re-read because I was extremely tired when I read it late last night.

We have dancers who are not connecting to Arabic music and aesthetics and not willing to try to learn. If you don't like Arabic stuff, and never intend to, why choose belly dancing? I'm not trying to be a bitch, I'm sincerely baffled by this thought process.
 
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