Videotaping event

iarasamra

New member
In March I plan to have a student showcase at a local theater for which we are charging admission to cover expenses of presenting it.

I have questions about videotaping. In the past when I organized events I didn't permit videotaping so that one videographer would videotape only the dancers who gave permission and the videotape was available only for the dancers.

Now with so many devices available, what do most event organizers do? I understand there are issues with music copyright and choreography copyright. And truthfully, I don't want everyone out there videotaping the show. Am I being unrealistic in not wanting people to take flash photography and videotape, since I see people videotaping at events even where it is not permitted?
If my expectations are appropriate and realistic how can I enforce it since this is basically a student event with families and friends attending?

Thanks in advance for all responses.

Samra Iara
 

lizaj

New member
Here in the UK, most theatres ban filming and flash photography of these kind of events .....if not photography altogether. This is to prevent misuse of the subject and also so that the audience can fully enjoy a show without being distracted. There are also fears that those in the audience who are epilectic, migraine sufferers might be affected. It's common to have "official filming" and/or "official" photographer. We do with the DVD and stills being available to performers only. At haflas in social clubs I also ask that people only film their own groups/friend's act and not a whole show. Still photos are fine and every group and soloist is asked wether or not they want to be filmed or snapped. It's an additional means of raising a little more money for the charity as well as a record for performers.
 

alosha

New member
I think it's a reasonable expectation. The flash photography messes with the ability for YOUR videographer to take good-quality video, and most dancers don't want joe-schmoe off the street videotaping them.

Enforcing, there I think you have to go with the honor-system. Make the request verbally and in the printed programs. If someone is being very obvious about taping, have them removed.
 

Daimona

Moderator
In March I plan to have a student showcase at a local theater for which we are charging admission to cover expenses of presenting it.

I have questions about videotaping. In the past when I organized events I didn't permit videotaping so that one videographer would videotape only the dancers who gave permission and the videotape was available only for the dancers.

Now with so many devices available, what do most event organizers do? I understand there are issues with music copyright and choreography copyright. And truthfully, I don't want everyone out there videotaping the show. Am I being unrealistic in not wanting people to take flash photography and videotape, since I see people videotaping at events even where it is not permitted?
If my expectations are appropriate and realistic how can I enforce it since this is basically a student event with families and friends attending?

You might be unrealistic, but I still think it's worth a try.

You need to give the audience a reminder both before the show starts and during the show that they are not allowed to take photos (with flash) or videotape the show*.

* Perhaps unless they have a specific permission from the organizers. I have asked organizers for permission to take pictures (of course without a flash) during shows that have been announced with "photographing/videographing not allowed". Once the official photographer forgot to bring his spare battery and missed three of the dancers - now three of my pictures appeares at the cover of the DVD from the show. :cool:


If you have both a videographer and a photographer*, you should also tell the audience that both the videotape and photographies are available for the dancers after the show and that the flashlight will disturb both the dancers on stage and the video. It's like telling kids what to do or not - if they know why they shouldn't do something, most won't, but some will still do it.


* You could even have two of both to be sure you get the best shots, or somethings happens with the cameras (no more battery, full memory card/tape etc).
 

PracticalDancer

New member
Hello Samra!

I had the joy of studying with you at a Women of Selket event back in 2007. I have since joined the troupe and become our primary videographer. Here is my advice, based on what I have learned over time. Mind you, I am not giving legal advice. ;)

1. Start by teaching your students about copyright issues and the risks / benefits of recording, publication, and broadcast. Once they understand what the legal issues are, they will be sympathetic to your stance. (Since you said these were your students.) Legal issues can include: copyright issues regarding the recording of choreography and music, protection of the identities of minors and other audience members (and some performers) who may not want their presence recorded, and the issues of using another's image for commercial profit.
2. Then, as others mentioned, clearly state the prohibited activities in your program and at the start of the show. Post signs reinforcing this in prominent locations.
3. Offer students an official recording that is good quality at a reasonable price. Don't gouge on cost here, but do charge a fair rate for expenses and effort. Then, include a legal disclosure on the order form, the cover of the DVD, and the film itself that it is a record for the student's personal use / education only -- this will help to limit your liability.
4. Have someone "back you up" during the show. You will be busy. Have your Significant Other (or the SO of one of the dancers, preferably an SO with an imposing demeanor) stand in the back and watch for violators. A polite tap on the shoulder and reminder that filming is prohibited is normally enough.

I hope this helps!

Regards,

Anala
 

Samira_dncr

New member
A polite tap on the shoulder and reminder that filming is prohibited is normally enough.

Yup, usually. I have had people actually removed for videotaping. Sigh. It's so ridiculous what one has to go through to put on a show. I stood in front of someone and literally put my hand in front of their camera to get them to stop...and they got mad at me! HA! I was polite, but I made them put everything away into their camera bag. The crazies....
 
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iarasamra

New member
Here in the UK, most theatres ban filming and flash photography of these kind of events .....if not photography altogether. This is to prevent misuse of the subject and also so that the audience can fully enjoy a show without being distracted. There are also fears that those in the audience who are epilectic, migraine sufferers might be affected. It's common to have "official filming" and/or "official" photographer. We do with the DVD and stills being available to performers only. At haflas in social clubs I also ask that people only film their own groups/friend's act and not a whole show. Still photos are fine and every group and soloist is asked wether or not they want to be filmed or snapped. It's an additional means of raising a little more money for the charity as well as a record for performers.
You brought up some additional great points to help people understand the reasons. I had not thought about these aspects, which are very real. Thanks.
 

iarasamra

New member
Hello Samra!

I had the joy of studying with you at a Women of Selket event back in 2007. I have since joined the troupe and become our primary videographer. Here is my advice, based on what I have learned over time. Mind you, I am not giving legal advice. ;)

1. Start by teaching your students about copyright issues and the risks / benefits of recording, publication, and broadcast. Once they understand what the legal issues are, they will be sympathetic to your stance. (Since you said these were your students.) Legal issues can include: copyright issues regarding the recording of choreography and music, protection of the identities of minors and other audience members (and some performers) who may not want their presence recorded, and the issues of using another's image for commercial profit.
2. Then, as others mentioned, clearly state the prohibited activities in your program and at the start of the show. Post signs reinforcing this in prominent locations.
3. Offer students an official recording that is good quality at a reasonable price. Don't gouge on cost here, but do charge a fair rate for expenses and effort. Then, include a legal disclosure on the order form, the cover of the DVD, and the film itself that it is a record for the student's personal use / education only -- this will help to limit your liability.
4. Have someone "back you up" during the show. You will be busy. Have your Significant Other (or the SO of one of the dancers, preferably an SO with an imposing demeanor) stand in the back and watch for violators. A polite tap on the shoulder and reminder that filming is prohibited is normally enough.

I hope this helps!

Regards,

Anala
Hi,

Congratulations on joining the Women of Selket. That troupe and each individual lady has inspired me and so many others throughout the years. I am sure that you are a great addition to the troupe.

I am taking notes of all the great suggestions. My students understand a lot of this, since I do not permit videotaping in class, and I have been very adamant about understanding and respecting copyright. Also the possibility of their image appearing in unexpected places.

It is their friends and relatives and the general public that I worry about.
We just performed at a city sponsored event at the same theater and everyone is videotaping, so they are going to thing we are the meanies. But I can handle that.
Thanks,
Samra
 

iarasamra

New member
Yup, usually. I have had people actually removed for videotaping. Sigh. It's so ridiculous what one has to go through to put on a show. I stood in front of someone and literally put my hand in front of their camera to get them to stop...and they got mad at me! HA! I was polite, but I made them put everything away into their camera bag. The crazies....
I hope it doesn't come to that, but if it is going to be enforced, I will bet it will. I go to the events and there is always someone sneaking photos and videotapes. I guess we can just control as much as we can.
I also have been in a situation when I asked to videotape an event and my tape ended being used because the official video did not turn out at all. My plan is to have an "official one" and then have my own camera run from a good stationary place.

Thanks for your ideas and experiences.
 

lizaj

New member
I can't understand why anyone as a member of a paying audience wants to spend all night with their eye up against a lens. You ask my husband how he enjoyed a show and he says.."I wouldn't know. I didn't see a thing!" He takes hundreds of photos!:)
 

Tezirah

New member
If the individual dancer has given her (his) permission for somebody in the audience to film them (friend, partner, whatever), I think it would be unreasonable not to allow it. Filming the whole event is another kettle of fish entirely, but I wouldn't be at all happy if I couldn't have somebody record my own performance at an event for me. Official videos do not always turn out very well and also it can take ages for them to be ready for distribution (and we all like to review our performances and pick them to pieces as soon as possible!)
 

da Sage

New member
If the individual dancer has given her (his) permission for somebody in the audience to film them (friend, partner, whatever), I think it would be unreasonable not to allow it. Filming the whole event is another kettle of fish entirely, but I wouldn't be at all happy if I couldn't have somebody record my own performance at an event for me. Official videos do not always turn out very well and also it can take ages for them to be ready for distribution (and we all like to review our performances and pick them to pieces as soon as possible!)

It is unreasonable for an individual dancer to sign up to participate in an event that doesn't allow videotaping, if she can't live without video of that one performance.:rolleyes:
 

Daimona

Moderator
If the individual dancer has given her (his) permission for somebody in the audience to film them (friend, partner, whatever), I think it would be unreasonable not to allow it. Filming the whole event is another kettle of fish entirely, but I wouldn't be at all happy if I couldn't have somebody record my own performance at an event for me. Official videos do not always turn out very well and also it can take ages for them to be ready for distribution (and we all like to review our performances and pick them to pieces as soon as possible!)

Yes, but this thing could be easily solved by hopefully agreeing with the organizer before the event starts.

If I were an organizer of an event with videofilming not permitted and I planned to sell DVDs of the event I wouldn't allow filming at all, but if I wasn't, I would certainly like to know if any of the dancers planned to be filmed by their beloved ones to be sure I wouldn't kick out the wrong person filming without permission...
 

Samira_dncr

New member
If the individual dancer has given her (his) permission for somebody in the audience to film them (friend, partner, whatever), I think it would be unreasonable not to allow it. Filming the whole event is another kettle of fish entirely, but I wouldn't be at all happy if I couldn't have somebody record my own performance at an event for me. Official videos do not always turn out very well and also it can take ages for them to be ready for distribution (and we all like to review our performances and pick them to pieces as soon as possible!)

Well...that's your perogative. You certainly don't have to dance at event that doesn't permit video tapping. But I don't think it's unreasonable for an organizer to prohibit videography of their shows--that's their perogative too.

Personally, I don't allow unauthorized videography at my pro-shows, but I do allow videography of the festival. I also pay through the nose to have a professional 2-camera shoot so I get quality footage of my shows. I let my performers purchase the raw unedited footage and they can do what they want with it. They usually have it within a week or two.
 

Samira_dncr

New member
It is unreasonable for an individual dancer to sign up to participate in an event that doesn't allow videotaping, if she can't live without video of that one performance.:rolleyes:

All the performers in my shows sign a contract that permits me to videotape, so they all know the terms well ahead of time. I also do the ridiculously uncommon thing and compensate everyone in my shows.
 

PracticalDancer

New member
If the individual dancer has given her (his) permission for somebody in the audience to film them (friend, partner, whatever), I think it would be unreasonable not to allow it. Filming the whole event is another kettle of fish entirely, but I wouldn't be at all happy if I couldn't have somebody record my own performance at an event for me. Official videos do not always turn out very well and also it can take ages for them to be ready for distribution (and we all like to review our performances and pick them to pieces as soon as possible!)

I hear your point, but let's flip this around and see how it might turn out . . .

The organizer cannot tell if the person in the audience is filming with permission or without.

If with your permission, then great -- you get exactly what you described above.

But, if the person filming is not, then many, many bad things could happen. The footage could wind up being sold commercially, without compensating you as an artist. The footage could be broadcast on the internet -- worse yet, broadcast without context, either poorly edited to not show your best performance or, worse, maliciously edited to make you look bad. The footage could include dancers who DID NOT give permission; and, there are some in my community who CANNOT have their images recorded or broadcast because of security issues with their "day jobs." The person recording could be some kind of pervert, doing who knows what with the footage. And, while I am a bit reticent to cover this one completely, the footage could become "evidence" if it is discovered that a local ordinance or broader law was broken in production. (There are local ordinances that restrict dancing that are still effective today, believe it or not. And, see threads on copyright issues.)

All this is on top of the fact that Joe Blow in the audience has to hold up his camera so that he can get the footage, blocking the view of the audience behind him. Whereas, the organizer can have strategically placed cameras that can capture the production without lessening the experience for the audience. And, the organizer can hire someone to do a bang-up job in a reasonable timeframe. (Having cranked out 35 copies of DVD in one week of the performance, myself! ;) )

So, that is how the other perspective looks. Having seen it from that side, I can tell you it is the less pretty of the two!

Regards,

Anala
 
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