70s bra consttruction

hippyhips

Member
would anyone know a person, or would any one have a 70s bra that was used to heavy beading or coin work, that would be willing to deconstruct it in part to show construction?
Heres my thinking........ im a busty lady, and many hand made bedhlas these days do not support the weight of coin work alone, never mind coin work with a big bust, so im very curious to know how they did it in the 70s knowing that A, they did not really have the internet knowledge they have today and B, the "bases" they had to work with were basic fabric bras with 0 moulded foam. I understand that for some, to deconstruct a much beloved vintage bedhla may be sacrilege, but i reckon it would help alot of dancers these days with construction of something sturdy
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Okay. Let me think a little how to explain constructing a bra and I'll get back to you. Once you get started, a lot of it will be intuitive. It starts with a good hard shell bra that fits well. Underwires always worked best for me since I wore a D to DD during the time I was making bras. If you can find a bra that has a vertical stay on each side that falls under your arms, that's perfect. You can also add a stay. I used to buy my bras from Fredericks of Hollywood because they had what were then called evening bras with very firm cups.

You're about a year too late for a proper deconstruction: I took apart my last coin bra last summer to scavenge the coins.
 

hippyhips

Member
It’s not general construction that I’m looking for (I’m always looking for better and versatile methods of construction) I’m looking to know how they did it in the 70s when there was no underwire and it was mostly fabric, as we are told those belly dancing bras were sturdy af.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
There were underwires in the seventies. I wore them exclusively and made my professional dance bras from them. Scrim (the version used for reinforcing tents and awnings) and other very stiff fabrics were used to reinforce the inside of lighter weight bra cups and hip bands, layers and layers of the stuff basically quilted into place before the cups were covered with fashion fabric. I never cared for that construction method, or the feel and appearance of the results, so can't help you there. Sorry.
 

Tourbeau

Active member
If I understand what you're asking, the issue isn't really anything specific to 1970's style, it's just about hard-cup bras with woven fabric bases and lots of heavy embellishments, which applies to most of the 20th Century, as opposed to the 21st-Century style of spandex costumes, molded cups, and less overall embellishment, right?

Back in prehistoric times, there were some dancers who self-published books on belly dancing that often included a section on making your own costumes. I came across one in a used bookstore in the early 1980's, but didn't buy it. All I remember was the part about sewing coins on with dental floss. That's not very helpful, but even if I had the title and author's name, it would probably be a miracle to locate a copy for sale today...but good news if you find one.

More realistically, Davina and Dina Lydia had books out when I was a beginner (slightly before the start of the Spandex Era). I think their books are still relatively easy to get. I don't know if Dina Lydia has retired from dancing, but here are some links from when she was collaborating with Shira:

http://www.shira.net/askcg.htm#Books
http://www.shira.net/costuming/cg/bra-cover.htm

Davina is still costuming/blogging/teaching and I'm sure she explains the old style of bra construction in one of her books:
https://www.davina.us/blog/books/
https://www.davina.us/blog/2018/04/diy-bras-blogs-vlogs/

This tutorial has also been around since the early days of the web:
http://www.kawakib.com/page-16.html

This tutorial is more contemporary, but might be useful:
http://www.shushanna.com/brabase.html

I remember that back in the day, some dancers bought loose hard cups from vendors like Scheherezade and Artemis rather than starting from a store-bought bra. Oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth when vendors stopped carrying them because their source stopped making them!

There was also a thread on Bhuz (now lost) where dancers who had disassembled newer costumes to alter them talked about some of the crazy stuff they found. Apparently, some Egyptian costumers would take flexible-cup bras, distend them with round objects, then wildly glop hot glue all over them to turn them into hard cups. Needless to say, you aren't going to be sewing hundreds of sequins through THAT. It's probably one of the quickest way to stiffen a bra, though.

Eh, that's all I've got...
 

hippyhips

Member
If I understand what you're asking, the issue isn't really anything specific to 1970's style, it's just about hard-cup bras with woven fabric bases and lots of heavy embellishments, which applies to most of the 20th Century, as opposed to the 21st-Century style of spandex costumes, molded cups, and less overall embellishment, right?

Back in prehistoric times, there were some dancers who self-published books on belly dancing that often included a section on making your own costumes. I came across one in a used bookstore in the early 1980's, but didn't buy it. All I remember was the part about sewing coins on with dental floss. That's not very helpful, but even if I had the title and author's name, it would probably be a miracle to locate a copy for sale today...but good news if you find one.

More realistically, Davina and Dina Lydia had books out when I was a beginner (slightly before the start of the Spandex Era). I think their books are still relatively easy to get. I don't know if Dina Lydia has retired from dancing, but here are some links from when she was collaborating with Shira:

http://www.shira.net/askcg.htm#Books
http://www.shira.net/costuming/cg/bra-cover.htm

Davina is still costuming/blogging/teaching and I'm sure she explains the old style of bra construction in one of her books:
https://www.davina.us/blog/books/
https://www.davina.us/blog/2018/04/diy-bras-blogs-vlogs/

This tutorial has also been around since the early days of the web:
http://www.kawakib.com/page-16.html

This tutorial is more contemporary, but might be useful:
http://www.shushanna.com/brabase.html

I remember that back in the day, some dancers bought loose hard cups from vendors like Scheherezade and Artemis rather than starting from a store-bought bra. Oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth when vendors stopped carrying them because their source stopped making them!

There was also a thread on Bhuz (now lost) where dancers who had disassembled newer costumes to alter them talked about some of the crazy stuff they found. Apparently, some Egyptian costumers would take flexible-cup bras, distend them with round objects, then wildly glop hot glue all over them to turn them into hard cups. Needless to say, you aren't going to be sewing hundreds of sequins through THAT. It's probably one of the quickest way to stiffen a bra, though.

Eh, that's all I've got...

Thank you - yes, your right ive been looking for 70s heavy embellishment bra construction.
I've checked out most of these links in the past and also been in touch with Davina, who said is doesn't know as she has never had her hands on one. i do remember years ago one dancer had a hand me down from her mother, who subsequently opened and altered it for a better fit, in the blog (if my memory serves) she showed pictures of the inside. ive also found a picture of the inside of Diane webbers bra, but the web page is no longer around, only that one picture. there's a costless costume group on Facebook and i might ask them too, as many of the costless costumes found are still attached to an older base.

That's mad about the Egyptian style hot glue bra! i suppose there wasn't many producers there either.
it Shall be a search of mine and i will continue, if you think of anything else, do let me know x
 

hippyhips

Member
There were underwires in the seventies. I wore them exclusively and made my professional dance bras from them. Scrim (the version used for reinforcing tents and awnings) and other very stiff fabrics were used to reinforce the inside of lighter weight bra cups and hip bands, layers and layers of the stuff basically quilted into place before the cups were covered with fashion fabric. I never cared for that construction method, or the feel and appearance of the results, so can't help you there. Sorry.
Thank you very much! This has given me a great place to start! If you can think of anything else or if you knows someone who can remember do let me know! ❤️
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I can't think of the names off hand, but it was interlining normally used for heavy duty construction. Some costume makers starched the hell out of the fabrics once they were sewn into the cups, making them very, very stiff and scratchy, then lined the cups with something absorbent (cotton flannel?) and replaced the lining regularly to keep things from getting too stinky. I never liked the look of cups that hard: everything else moved naturally with the dance except the bra cups, which were like twin Rocks of Gibraltar. I was more a of a hippie chick; organic, you might say. :sneaky:

After thinking back a little: for another dancer, I took two sets of hard shell cups and put one set inside the other to make the cups very firm. The inside set was her usual size and the outside cup was a size larger. I put layers of fabric between them, with more at the bottom of the cups than at the top to give her some lift That technique resulted in a stiffer cup and increased boobage, which she wanted, having modestly sized breasts. Huh. I haven't though of that in about 35 years.
 

hippyhips

Member
This is amazing, thank you Shanazel! ladies with larger boobs like mine cant get alot of the ready made stuff and so its up to us to figure it out And your information has been a god send! i know what you mean with the steady boobs and jiggly everything else, im totally using this Analogy from now on!

which were like twin Rocks of Gibraltar.

im dead :D :D
 

Tourbeau

Active member
Have you investigated the bra-making community and their resources? The mainstream sewing pattern companies are probably not going to meet your needs, but some of the specialty sources might be helpful. https://www.sewsassy.com/BraProducts/elan-bra-patterns.html This sounds like an extravaganza of trial-and-error fumbling until you settle into a good pattern, but if you can't buy what you need and don't want to custom order, brute-force experimentation may be your main option.

Have you reached out to Ozma of Japan yet? She has a lot of costuming experience, and IIRC from the old Bhuz days, people used to occasionally send her vintage costumes for consultation/rehabbing. (And if I'm not remembering correctly, I suspect she would be able to refer you to a better person because she was a well-respected authority in the BD costuming community.)
 

hippyhips

Member
Have you investigated the bra-making community and their resources? The mainstream sewing pattern companies are probably not going to meet your needs, but some of the specialty sources might be helpful. https://www.sewsassy.com/BraProducts/elan-bra-patterns.html This sounds like an extravaganza of trial-and-error fumbling until you settle into a good pattern, but if you can't buy what you need and don't want to custom order, brute-force experimentation may be your main option.

Have you reached out to Ozma of Japan yet? She has a lot of costuming experience, and IIRC from the old Bhuz days, people used to occasionally send her vintage costumes for consultation/rehabbing. (And if I'm not remembering correctly, I suspect she would be able to refer you to a better person because she was a well-respected authority in the BD costuming community.)
Thank you for these ideas! I think I know of ozma (if memory serves she only makes for friends now). These are great resources! Thank you again! X
 

Tourbeau

Active member
I was thinking of Ozma more as someone who might have insight into construction of vintage costumes or who might know of someone else with that knowledge, not that she would necessarily make a costume for you as a special order. Going back through my dusty Bhuz mental archive, I'd probably point you to Eshta for a custom costume https://www.etsy.com/people/EshtaAmar if that's what you want.

Have you also looked into any burlesque costuming forums? There are probably retro costumers over there who would have dealt with similar bra-construction issues in the pre-spandex, pre-molded-foam-cups days.
 

Ariadne

Well-known member
I looked into this years ago when I was making my own costume and, while all kinds of fabrics including denim has been used, from what I remember what you want is Cotton Duck Canvas. You use multiple layers. Not only is it stiff it can be sewn through and can hold up to the heavyweight embellishments. You do NOT want it next to your skin though so you also sew in a felt lining you can remove for washing/replacing, which has the added bonus of protecting your stitches. Just don’t forget to drop a stitch in the center before tacking the liner in or you can get something called “boob creep” where you accidentally leave empty space in the cup turning it into the equivalent of a push up bra.
 

Tourbeau

Active member
I'm sure if the OP has a lot of sewing experience, this is not news, but for the benefit of someone stumbling into the thread later with considerably less experience, I would also add if you are using a cotton fabric like duck or denim to consider prewashing it. At a minimum, you will probably be sweating and you don't want any accidental dye transfer to your skirt/stomach cover/skin. Also, it is possible that you or a future owner may someday get the urge to try washing the costume. IIRC, in ancient times, dancers would sometimes repurpose old, worn jeans to avoid the dye/shrinkage problem that new indigo denim has (as rigid and pretty as it may be), but you can also buy white denim off the bolt and you only have to worry about shrinkage then.

Washing a costume is a whole can of worms unto itself, but if you're going to invest hours and hours of sewing work, you may as well make your costume as robust as possible. The durability of decorations can vary greatly, and I'm not saying you should limit yourself to embellishments that can go in the washer, but when you have the option to choose between, say, garment-quality sequins and crafting-grade sequins, or metal beads and plated plastic beads, go with higher quality, more durable choices whenever you can afford it.

And since you mentioned Costless, if you are making a coin costume, designing for a future possibility of removing the coins to wash or repair the base is often a good idea. When designing a base for a coin set, consider whether the coins will oxidize and visibly soil the base, or if the base fabric can stand up to the abrasion of moving coins. (You can make a chainmail-type metal base that gets sewn onto the fabric base, or strips of coin fringe on chain, cord, or sturdy fabric tape. Either way, it's easier to remove those than undoing the decorations one coin at a time.)

Of course, sometimes the design and materials you have in mind won't lend themselves to full washing or convenient disassembly for partial washing, no matter what you do, and some dancers don't mind making quickie, semi-disposable costumes with cheaper materials, so YMMV. There are valid reasons to make costumes that will become heirlooms and valid reasons to make costumes that won't.

But, yeah, it's a good idea to design--when you can--for the possibility that you or someone down the road might decide your costume smells too much of sweat or smoke, or it has become so dirty it needs more than a spot clean (the biggest offenders seem to be makeup/bronzers/artificial tanning products), and part of this is remembering cotton shrinks and some colors bleed more than others.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
My first hip band consisted of several layers of well-worn and washed denim covered with fashion fabric. I liked the way it curved to fit me; heavier fabric/interlining was a firmer base for (excessive) decoration but it usually gapped somewhere, no matter how carefully I placed darts. That first hip band lasted for forty years; many people wore it at one time or another. When I retired, I finally took it apart for the coins and consigned it, with thanks, to the dusting cloth bag (minus the silver metallic fashion fabric, of course ;))
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
We used the oldest, most worn out denim we could find for costume bases when I was in DCM.
 
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