Bint Al Balad, London Show By Hilal-Trained Dancers - Page 3

Caroline_afifi · 03-07-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aziyade

Um, huh? Can you explain? I missed something.

BTW -- you said your husband puts Dina etc in the same class as the rest -- does that mean he does NOT think highly of them?

So sorry, we say Joe Blogs here which I think is like John Doe in America? the ordinary man on the street.

My husband thinks they all climbed the ladder in the same way, some just got higher but it doesnt make them any more classy.

Suheir · 03-07-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

By the way, I heard she is not Egyptian. Her real name is Selwa Raja and this is not an Egyptian name at all.

I read somewhere that she was born in Egypt but is Yemeni. Yes, her name used to be Selwa Rajaa - that's what she's called in the photo captions in the 1983 book "Belly Dancing" by Wendy Buonaventura. The paragraph about her says: "Selwa Rajaa is an Egyptian now living in England. She learned beledi (Egyptian for native dance) as a child, developing her style by watching films of Samia Gamal and Tahia Carioca. She says that chills of emotion would run up and down her body as she watched them, adding 'Dancing was my freedom'. She describes how she would lock the door and throw herself into the dance and can recall at the age of five being pulled to her feet to perform at weddings. Her dancing is a combination of playfulness, power and flame-like grace and it leaves no doubt as to the extraordinary beauty of Middle Eastern dance at its finest"

Ah, here we are, from: iShimmy.com - Dancer To Dancer - Dancer to Dancer with Margo Abdo O'Dell

"The classes Margo took from Selwa Raja, a Yemen native, transformed her from a modern dance enthusiast to a Middle Eastern dance devotee"

Aisha Azar · 03-07-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suheir

I read somewhere that she was born in Egypt but is Yemeni. Yes, her name used to be Selwa Rajaa - that's what she's called in the photo captions in the 1983 book "Belly Dancing" by Wendy Buonaventura. The paragraph about her says: "Selwa Rajaa is an Egyptian now living in England. She learned beledi (Egyptian for native dance) as a child, developing her style by watching films of Samia Gamal and Tahia Carioca. She says that chills of emotion would run up and down her body as she watched them, adding 'Dancing was my freedom'. She describes how she would lock the door and throw herself into the dance and can recall at the age of five being pulled to her feet to perform at weddings. Her dancing is a combination of playfulness, power and flame-like grace and it leaves no doubt as to the extraordinary beauty of Middle Eastern dance at its finest"

Ah, here we are, from: iShimmy.com - Dancer To Dancer - Dancer to Dancer with Margo Abdo O'Dell

"The classes Margo took from Selwa Raja, a Yemen native, transformed her from a modern dance enthusiast to a Middle Eastern dance devotee"

Dear Suheir,
Sometimes people invent their history as they go along.... I do not know this person and I also do not know if it is the case here.
Regards,
A'isha

Caroline_afifi · 03-07-2008, 06:20 PM

Yes, this corresponds with someone i work with on the Arab Arts festival who said he knows her family in Taiz, Yemen. He also said her sister works in broadcasting in Cairo. I read Wendy's first book a long time ago. This is proabaly what Selwa told her back then. It was Wendy who got her started in London when she was a little known dancer living in Oxford.
She certainly lost her joy somewhere along the way...

Aziyade · 03-07-2008, 06:39 PM

Wait -- Margo O'Dell???

She's a great dancer, and a good teacher. We had her in Louisville a couple of years ago. But I thought she was just in college studying dance at the same time and school Selwa/Suraya was. I didn't think Suraya was actually TEACHING at that time. hmmm....

Margo dances NOTHING like Suraya. It's more flirty/folky/debke, American Oriental with an Egyptian/Lebanese flavor (or maybe it IS Lebanese style.) NOTHING like Hilal style.

lizaj · 03-08-2008, 09:55 AM

[quote=Caroline_afifi;66508]

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Caroline,
Among the Arabs I know, they define Raqs Sharghi as the professional belly dance we see done by people like Randa, Fifi, Suhair Zaki, Danash, etc. I note that they often do not have any names for folkloric dances on the other hand, and may call them "belly dance" in English if they think a person does not know there is a difference. Raqs sharghi among Arabs does seem to have a specific definition.'

mmmm... not really my experience. My husband knows diddly squat about dance but he knows Saa'idi, Beladi, Shaabi etc. he knows the names of the very famous dancers from the TV too.
They do call dance just Roqs generally and do sort of lump belly dance styles together. Jamal Blogs does not know the difference between some of the styles and generally tend not to analyse too much.

Could it be that many Egyptian men are generally more interested in football than belly dancing?

An Iraqi friend has only ever been a fan of Nagwa and that's because she used to put on great TV shows (in his opinion ) and was an all round entertainer.

Aisha Azar · 03-08-2008, 03:28 PM

[quote=lizaj;66643]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

Could it be that many Egyptian men are generally more interested in football than belly dancing?

An Iraqi friend has only ever been a fan of Nagwa and that's because she used to put on great TV shows (in his opinion ) and was an all round entertainer.

Dear Lisaj,
I imagine they are about as interested in dance as men anywhere else in the world, meaning, yeah, not so interested except for a few, and if one if young, it is a great way to meet girls!
Regards,
A'isha

Twelve12 · 04-28-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

I studied with the Raqs Sharqi society back in the mid-nineties. Then they were the most organised teachers with precisse technique that has inflenced me kin a positive way. However, i eventually realised I was becoming a clone of all the others and the range of technique was so limited it strangeld me.
I have not been to see a Hilal show since Spirit of the heart in 1997 so I went with friends, one of who is still a Hilal supporter. Here is what happend.
One friend slept all the way through, My other friend cried tears at the end with disapointment and I felt mad. I dont know why and I cant really explain but i felt angry.
There was not one single hip movement and it was one hour of swaying and scissor walks. The music was very boring and even when the usually brilliant musicians came on it was still very boring. Her husband danced alot and wore identical costumes to Suraya and the other two girls. It was all very weird.
He actually made me laugh as he was a 50 something over weight version of her but at times her looked like he was desperate to burst out into some kind of belly dance and say to hell with it. The expressions on the faces was dead.
Stepford wives and husband.

Hi,

It is unfortunate that you have not been to any other Suraya Hilal performances since Spirit of the Heart as she has moved on since then in technigue. I had a friend go to the performance and she really enjoyed the show.

I am afraid you need to understand that Hilal dance is NOT BELLY DANCE. IT IS HILAL DANCE, which is now completely different. Hilal Dance is a contemporay dance form, with Egyptian origins. Spirit of the Heart was very early Hilal Dance. I am Suraya would dance it completely different now.

Dance art by its very nature is about change and evolution otherwise a dance form dies. Attend a class or have some one who knows about Hilal dance explain it to you.

PS

The "Bint Al Balad, London Show By Hilal-Trained Dancers" video clip is NOT Hilal trained dancers. It is quite clear they have more to do with belly dancing than Hilal dance.

Suheir · 04-28-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twelve12

The "Bint Al Balad, London Show By Hilal-Trained Dancers" video clip is NOT Hilal trained dancers. It is quite clear they have more to do with belly dancing than Hilal dance.

I beg to differ. Sara Kahan was one of the teachers who formed the Hilal School of Raqs Sharqi with Suraya Hilal and Meret Gabra started her dance training with the Hilal School of Raqs Sharqi.

Twelve12 · 04-28-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suheir

I beg to differ. Sara Kahan was one of the teachers who formed the Hilal School of Raqs Sharqi with Suraya Hilal and Meret Gabra started her dance training with the Hilal School of Raqs Sharqi.

Yes you are right. My apologies

However, putting the internal politics of Hilal Dance to one side and that is very difficult I concede. What was shown in that clip is not where Hilal dance is now. A good starting point is the DVD Al Janub put out by Suraya I think around 2002, which Suraya would say is Hilal dance. It is bit like a martial arts where various people have left to do their own thing and Suraya continued on evolving the dance form.

A good recent example of this is one of the dancers from Al Janub, Marie al Fajr, is no longer with Hilal Dance, but with another group known as Tanzraum (tanzraum). She is very fine dancer and the group has some great stuff. But since she has left the dance form has moved on.

The unfortunate fact is that Suraya has left a lot of people in her wake. You may like her work or hate it, but you cannot ignore it.

03-07-2008, 06:20 PM	#24 (permalink)
Caroline_afifi V.I.P. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 1,285	Yes, this corresponds with someone i work with on the Arab Arts festival who said he knows her family in Taiz, Yemen. He also said her sister works in broadcasting in Cairo. I read Wendy's first book a long time ago. This is proabaly what Selwa told her back then. It was Wendy who got her started in London when she was a little known dancer living in Oxford. She certainly lost her joy somewhere along the way...

03-07-2008, 06:39 PM	#25 (permalink)
Aziyade V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cornfields of Evansville Indiana. Posts: 1,050	Wait -- Margo O'Dell??? She's a great dancer, and a good teacher. We had her in Louisville a couple of years ago. But I thought she was just in college studying dance at the same time and school Selwa/Suraya was. I didn't think Suraya was actually TEACHING at that time. hmmm.... Margo dances NOTHING like Suraya. It's more flirty/folky/debke, American Oriental with an Egyptian/Lebanese flavor (or maybe it IS Lebanese style.) NOTHING like Hilal style.