??? - Page 2

sedoniaraqs · 02-12-2008, 01:33 AM

It is interesting to see the replies here. I am generally very much a purist, especially when it comes to Om Kalthoum music, and I love Alf leyla wi leyla. I also generally dislike attempts at humourous belly dance; I think most of them fail miserably. And yet, I thought this was just adorable and funny. I also thought the skit had a certain innocent silliness to it; perhaps that is what made it work for me.

Of course it wouldn't be appropriate for an Arabic or international audience. But I have laughed at plenty of jokes and scenes that would not be appropriate for all audiences. I guess this just goes to show the odd and unpredictable nature of humor.

Interestingly, the youtube link posted by moon was a chopped up edited version. I'm not sure why the youtube user edited it like thhat. I can see the humor failing due to way it was edited. But when I saw it, it was entire.

Sedonia

sedoniaraqs · 02-12-2008, 01:44 AM

Here is the unedited version, in case it makes a difference to anyone.YouTube - Ranya of NYC & Maqamikaze company- "Alf Leyla w'Leyla"

I guess I like parody. I also love Weird Al Yankovich, and Bugs Bunny's skit set to the Barber of Seville.

firshania · 02-12-2008, 04:08 AM

I know that Oum Kathoum is kind of sacred for arabs and I still don't agree with that. I konw that the lyrics of this song as nothing to do with the comedy, but they made a very good job with the instrumental version. And if we use a bit of our imagination, it match perfectly.

Oum Kalthoum was a singer, not a godess. Even if some culture can sacred her songs, it is still wrong to put such ridiculous boundaries. It's only music and if we can't use our creativity with song that we know, understand and like, by changing their first meaning and by using it to make something new and different, then where is the fun? Where is the creativity of the artist if we put limits like that? And it wasn't for an arab public, it was for an american public that doesn't even konw who Oum Kalthoum really is.

It is a very good thing to understand other culture, to know what Oum Kalthoums means to arabs people, but respect is not about thinking the way the other culture think. I'm not arabic, I'm canadian and as a canadian, Oum Kalthoum is only a singer, not a godess. And it's ok. I love her songs, I love the original lyrics, I love to dance in a classic way to her music, but I certainly don't like to put boundaries were no one is needed.

Thinking that a human is sacred is never a good thing. It's not because other culture do it that we should think the same way. Maybe it's not a good thing to present this choreo in Egypt, because the public won't like it anyway, but here in America, I don't see why we should be offend by a simple, funny and cute comedy on an Oum Kalthoum song.

Putting limit on our art is the best way to kill the creativity. We should know the basic rules first, but then, we should go over it. It is art! So smile, relax and have fun

I liked this performance and still does. It was a great idea.

(sorry for my english...)

Shanazel · 02-12-2008, 06:10 AM

Thanks, Sedonia! I loved Bugs Bunny (have you heard Elmer Fudd sing Wagner? "Kill da Wabbit" sung to the ride of the Valkeries.)

As other people have said, the belly dance parody isn't appropriate for all audiences, but what is? No matter what you do, someone is bound to get in a twist about it.

Oum Kalthoum is a perfectly lovely singer, but I don't feel compelled to take offense at a gently comic dance on behalf of people who venerate her. There are people who feel just as passionately about Elvis Presley (if you don't think so, take a trip to Memphis, Tennessee some summer) and I don't feel compelled to take offense at Elvis impersonators, either.

da Sage · 02-12-2008, 06:41 AM

The unedited version makes more sense to me. I do not think it is meant to be "funny", so much as amusing. I went to check the lyrics, and while I don't know which lyrics go with which phrases, I think the story line somewhat parallels the themes of the the song. Were they stretching it? Yes. Did they stretch it too far? Obviously a lot of people here thought so!

I have to wonder if some bellydancing librarian or literature teacher came up with this idea, about the great love of her life.

Now I am wishing I knew what music the excellent "clown bellydance" (my term, not the artist's) performance I saw locally was danced to. It might very well have been Oum Kalthoum (sp?).

Maria_Aya · 02-12-2008, 07:28 AM

I feel very wierd and with mixed feelings about this video.
Alf Leyla wa Leyla IS my favorite of all songs and maybe the one that I perfrom the most (and lately by demand at shows).
Personaly I feel more angry by a "bellydancer" that play's it serious artist and dance to Oum Kolthoum with bad teqnick, no emotion, splits and jumps from the video that is posted over here.
I actually found it kind of cute in a way (ohh ohh I'm an egyptian purist I think something is going wrong with me lol

, did I typed that??? lol).
Comedy bellydance (and comedy dance) is a very big risk anyway.
Now what I dont like is that the people that posted this one, disabled ratings and messages.
Dance and art in general is a communicating form of creactivity for people.
And internet have this interactive character. By cuting the interaction we just wonder why? They dont want the critism? In this case I get the feeling that the piece was selected on purpose to create conversations...
Just my opinion.

Maria Aya

Moon · 02-12-2008, 09:47 AM

I this the person who uploaded it thought she might attract Arabs and bellydancers who might be offended by this.

sedoniaraqs · 02-12-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanazel

Thanks, Sedonia! I loved Bugs Bunny (have you heard Elmer Fudd sing Wagner? "Kill da Wabbit" sung to the ride of the Valkeries.)

Yep! My entire generation grew up with our only exposure to western classical music being Loony Tunes and Merry Melodies cartoons. These composers would surely turn over in their graves to witness what was done to their music.

What is the piece of music that was always played in the cartoons when there scene in a factory ran by robots? You know what I'm talking about? Some 20th century composer I think.

Sedonia

sedoniaraqs · 02-12-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria_Aya

Personaly I feel more angry by a "bellydancer" that play's it serious artist and dance to Oum Kolthoum with bad teqnick, no emotion, splits and jumps from the video that is posted over here.

I agree totally.

Aziyade · 02-12-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedoniaraqs

Yep! My entire generation grew up with our only exposure to western classical music being Loony Tunes and Merry Melodies cartoons. These composers would surely turn over in their graves to witness what was done to their music.

Or not, maybe. Find me a person who's over 25 who DOESN'T know the Kill Da Wabbit theme. At least we've all been exposed to the music. (Of course, I was probably 20 before I actually knew the real name of the Scarlet Pumpernickle.)

Quote:

What is the piece of music that was always played in the cartoons when there scene in a factory ran by robots? You know what I'm talking about? Some 20th century composer I think.

Loony Tunes/WB used "42nd Street" in a lot of their "mechanistic" scenes. Is that what you're talking about?

02-12-2008, 01:44 AM	#12 (permalink)
sedoniaraqs Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: cultural wasteland of the midwestern US Posts: 574	Here is the unedited version, in case it makes a difference to anyone.YouTube - Ranya of NYC & Maqamikaze company- "Alf Leyla w'Leyla" I guess I like parody. I also love Weird Al Yankovich, and Bugs Bunny's skit set to the Barber of Seville. Last edited by sedoniaraqs; 02-12-2008 at 01:51 AM.

02-12-2008, 07:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	I feel very wierd and with mixed feelings about this video. Alf Leyla wa Leyla IS my favorite of all songs and maybe the one that I perfrom the most (and lately by demand at shows). Personaly I feel more angry by a "bellydancer" that play's it serious artist and dance to Oum Kolthoum with bad teqnick, no emotion, splits and jumps from the video that is posted over here. I actually found it kind of cute in a way (ohh ohh I'm an egyptian purist I think something is going wrong with me lol , did I typed that??? lol). Comedy bellydance (and comedy dance) is a very big risk anyway. Now what I dont like is that the people that posted this one, disabled ratings and messages. Dance and art in general is a communicating form of creactivity for people. And internet have this interactive character. By cuting the interaction we just wonder why? They dont want the critism? In this case I get the feeling that the piece was selected on purpose to create conversations... Just my opinion. Maria Aya __________________ ... www.orientalexpression.gr

02-12-2008, 01:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
sedoniaraqs Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: cultural wasteland of the midwestern US Posts: 574	It is interesting to see the replies here. I am generally very much a purist, especially when it comes to Om Kalthoum music, and I love Alf leyla wi leyla. I also generally dislike attempts at humourous belly dance; I think most of them fail miserably. And yet, I thought this was just adorable and funny. I also thought the skit had a certain innocent silliness to it; perhaps that is what made it work for me. Of course it wouldn't be appropriate for an Arabic or international audience. But I have laughed at plenty of jokes and scenes that would not be appropriate for all audiences. I guess this just goes to show the odd and unpredictable nature of humor. Interestingly, the youtube link posted by moon was a chopped up edited version. I'm not sure why the youtube user edited it like thhat. I can see the humor failing due to way it was edited. But when I saw it, it was entire. Sedonia

02-12-2008, 04:08 AM	#13 (permalink)
firshania Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 35	I know that Oum Kathoum is kind of sacred for arabs and I still don't agree with that. I konw that the lyrics of this song as nothing to do with the comedy, but they made a very good job with the instrumental version. And if we use a bit of our imagination, it match perfectly. Oum Kalthoum was a singer, not a godess. Even if some culture can sacred her songs, it is still wrong to put such ridiculous boundaries. It's only music and if we can't use our creativity with song that we know, understand and like, by changing their first meaning and by using it to make something new and different, then where is the fun? Where is the creativity of the artist if we put limits like that? And it wasn't for an arab public, it was for an american public that doesn't even konw who Oum Kalthoum really is. It is a very good thing to understand other culture, to know what Oum Kalthoums means to arabs people, but respect is not about thinking the way the other culture think. I'm not arabic, I'm canadian and as a canadian, Oum Kalthoum is only a singer, not a godess. And it's ok. I love her songs, I love the original lyrics, I love to dance in a classic way to her music, but I certainly don't like to put boundaries were no one is needed. Thinking that a human is sacred is never a good thing. It's not because other culture do it that we should think the same way. Maybe it's not a good thing to present this choreo in Egypt, because the public won't like it anyway, but here in America, I don't see why we should be offend by a simple, funny and cute comedy on an Oum Kalthoum song. Putting limit on our art is the best way to kill the creativity. We should know the basic rules first, but then, we should go over it. It is art! So smile, relax and have fun I liked this performance and still does. It was a great idea. (sorry for my english...)

02-12-2008, 06:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
Shanazel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains USA Posts: 4,578	Thanks, Sedonia! I loved Bugs Bunny (have you heard Elmer Fudd sing Wagner? "Kill da Wabbit" sung to the ride of the Valkeries.) As other people have said, the belly dance parody isn't appropriate for all audiences, but what is? No matter what you do, someone is bound to get in a twist about it. Oum Kalthoum is a perfectly lovely singer, but I don't feel compelled to take offense at a gently comic dance on behalf of people who venerate her. There are people who feel just as passionately about Elvis Presley (if you don't think so, take a trip to Memphis, Tennessee some summer) and I don't feel compelled to take offense at Elvis impersonators, either.

02-12-2008, 06:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
da Sage V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,088	The unedited version makes more sense to me. I do not think it is meant to be "funny", so much as amusing. I went to check the lyrics, and while I don't know which lyrics go with which phrases, I think the story line somewhat parallels the themes of the the song. Were they stretching it? Yes. Did they stretch it too far? Obviously a lot of people here thought so! I have to wonder if some bellydancing librarian or literature teacher came up with this idea, about the great love of her life. Now I am wishing I knew what music the excellent "clown bellydance" (my term, not the artist's) performance I saw locally was danced to. It might very well have been Oum Kalthoum (sp?).

02-12-2008, 09:47 AM	#17 (permalink)
Moon V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 3,627	I this the person who uploaded it thought she might attract Arabs and bellydancers who might be offended by this.