Om Kalsoum- Good, bad and the ugly interpretations - Page 3

Suheir · 02-25-2007, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryssanthi sahar

If I am honest, I liked most of all (next to Egyptian Lucy), American Lucys interpretation. She dances a very good Egyptian style. I also liked Orit and Aisha, I found Bozenka acceptable but not great, but I didn't like Azeeza's interpretation. She tries to dance Egyptian, but it looks more like American Cabaret , which is absolutely o.k. for any other kind of music, but nor for Oum Kalsoum (O.k., you know by now that I am a purist, when it comes to Oum Kalsoum).
I agree with Kiraze, that there are Oum Kalsoum songs which are difficult to dance, and others which are less difficult. It depends also at the musical interpretation. If they have been kept "original", or if they have been very adapted to Raqs Sharqi.

I totally agree with your opinions of the peformances. American Lucy is great, I'd not seen her before! I really don't like Aziza's dancing, her movements are huge and she uses the music in a strange way. I think her performance that won her 'Bellydancer Of The Universe' was awful and the way she butchered Hossam Ramzy's 'Faddah' was shocking.

Kiraze · 02-26-2007, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryssanthi sahar

I didn't like Azeeza's interpretation. She tries to dance Egyptian, but it looks more like American Cabaret , which is absolutely o.k. for any other kind of music, but nor for Oum Kalsoum (O.k., you know by now that I am a purist, when it comes to Oum Kalsoum).

I agree that Aziza´s style is not Egyptian but I still prefer her interpretation (and I confess that I even like some Jillina´s interpretations - especially Leylet Hob... ) to Om Kalsoum over modern Egyptian "Raqia Hassan/Dina" style as it still catches in my eyes the flow of classical feeling of Golden Age better than this modern style. (BTW I would not call this style AmCab, which is totally different - maybe this could be called "Westernized Egyptian" as it definately has Egyptian basic but western influences - and in my eyes also most of the German dancers represent this same style)

BTW can someone find any Om Kalsoum clips by other Egyptian dancers but Lucy? I tried but so far without luck.

Jamil · 02-26-2007, 02:53 AM

From an Arab Point of view, i truely believe that any and all of Oum Kalthoum, Abdel Halim Hafez or Farid Attrach's songs cant be simply 'danced' to. but must be felt before danced to.

arab audiences know, that even when it comes to Modern arabic songs that deal with emotion, None can compare to the depth of sentiment that these aforementioned singers have been able to express. Their songs are so powerful in the arab world, that even hearing a few beats of a song will automatically result in audiences entrancing into a certian mindset. if a performer doesnt mirror that same passion, reguradless of her talent, they wont be impressed.

in my opinion, when it comes to the classics, most educated arabs dont focus on talent and how much pops and locks a dancer has in her movement vocabulary, but rather how powerful her interpretation of the song is... thus i find it fundamental for dancers to know what their songs mean when they use them in a performance.

This criteria is also how i Judge a good and bad Oum Kalthoum performance.

Just thought i would add my 2 cents.
-=Jamil=-

chryssanthi sahar · 02-26-2007, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamil

From an Arab Point of view, i truely believe that any and all of Oum Kalthoum, Abdel Halim Hafez or Farid Attrach's songs cant be simply 'danced' to. but must be felt before danced to.

arab audiences know, that even when it comes to Modern arabic songs that deal with emotion, None can compare to the depth of sentiment that these aforementioned singers have been able to express. Their songs are so powerful in the arab world, that even hearing a few beats of a song will automatically result in audiences entrancing into a certian mindset. if a performer doesnt mirror that same passion, reguradless of her talent, they wont be impressed.

in my opinion, when it comes to the classics, most educated arabs dont focus on talent and how much pops and locks a dancer has in her movement vocabulary, but rather how powerful her interpretation of the song is... thus i find it fundamental for dancers to know what their songs mean when they use them in a performance.

This criteria is also how i Judge a good and bad Oum Kalthoum performance.

Just thought i would add my 2 cents.
-=Jamil=-

I completely agree

This is the reason that although I dance Egyptian style , I am a very experienced dancer and I have a big knowledge of Arabian music, I haven't dared to dance certain songs of Oum Kalsoum in public yet. I want to get deeper into Oum Kalsoum's music and I want to know the meaning of the words, before I start performing it in public (o.k. I perform some Raqs Sharqi adaptions with themes of some of her songs, but not the classics like "Lissa Fakir" and "Enta Omri", although we have a Greek version of Enta Omri).

chryssanthi sahar · 02-26-2007, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiraze

I agree that Aziza´s style is not Egyptian but I still prefer her interpretation (and I confess that I even like some Jillina´s interpretations - especially Leylet Hob... ) to Om Kalsoum over modern Egyptian "Raqia Hassan/Dina" style as AmCab still catches in my eyes the flow of classical feeling of Golden Age better than this modern style.

Sorry Kiraze, but at this point I completely disagree. Your eye is probably not trained enough for the details of the modern Egyptian style and it's interpretation of the music.

Kiraze · 02-26-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryssanthi sahar

Sorry Kiraze, but at this point I completely disagree. Your eye is probably not trained enough for the details of the modern Egyptian style and it's interpretation of the music.

well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder - my eye just prefers some other styles and another reason may be that I have just seen far too many overly choreographed, overly technical, overly introverted or overacted "modern Egyptian" versions of Om Kalsoum´s or any other classics and with few exceptions they have just bored me to death whether the dance was created by Raqia or any of her devotées in Finland or somewhere else... (and as a side note of Finnish dancers about 100% dance modern Egyptian including me before turning into heretic... and I still do but I just try not to tell anybody

)

Helena · 02-26-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simone min al Akariyah

The veil dancer and Masha have no oriental roots. "They don't know better " an arab would say. So they have a 50% excuse.

The veil dancer is Shakira herself, so she does have oriental roots..

Persephone · 02-26-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar

I've always loved (American) Lucy's "Lessa Fakir" interpretation...I think she did a fantasitc job!
Gia

I was lucky enough to be in class with Lucy while she was developing her "Lessa Fakir" (I was working on my version of Farid el-Atrache's "Leila"). The song is very personal to her, and you can tell from that from the way she moves. It makes me all weepy.

Persephone · 02-26-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryssanthi sahar

Sorry Kiraze, but at this point I completely disagree. Your eye is probably not trained enough for the details of the modern Egyptian style and it's interpretation of the music.

I don't think it's really fair to say that someone isn't as "trained" as you because she has a different opinion. Personally, I agree that modern BDSS style lacks the real feeling for am Oum Khalsoum song, but I have heard arguments that a lot of AmCab dancers have things in common with the Golden Age stars that Dina and Randa don't, and I can see that argument even though I personally prefer Dina and Randa. This is an art, not a science, and not everyone with a sufficient amount of "training" will come to the same conclusions.

Simone min al Akariyah · 02-26-2007, 11:27 PM

Dear Kiraze,
also felt a little discomfort once when Chryssanthi tried to let me know that I did not properly listen or misunderstood. She uses clear words instead of whatever polite expressions. The thing is: most of the time she is really not unright. She wants to show and teach us to see, feel and understand oriental dance. Most of our teachers cannot do it. - Therefore I appreciate her comments.

Thanks, Helena,
very surprising to hear that Shakira is the veil dancer. Now, I wonder how the people of Zahle (Shakira's father is Zahle raised) would assess this 'Enta Omri' interpretation. But I could imagine they would be slightly irritated.

02-26-2007, 02:53 AM	#23 (permalink)
Jamil Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 61	From an Arab Point of view, i truely believe that any and all of Oum Kalthoum, Abdel Halim Hafez or Farid Attrach's songs cant be simply 'danced' to. but must be felt before danced to. arab audiences know, that even when it comes to Modern arabic songs that deal with emotion, None can compare to the depth of sentiment that these aforementioned singers have been able to express. Their songs are so powerful in the arab world, that even hearing a few beats of a song will automatically result in audiences entrancing into a certian mindset. if a performer doesnt mirror that same passion, reguradless of her talent, they wont be impressed. in my opinion, when it comes to the classics, most educated arabs dont focus on talent and how much pops and locks a dancer has in her movement vocabulary, but rather how powerful her interpretation of the song is... thus i find it fundamental for dancers to know what their songs mean when they use them in a performance. This criteria is also how i Judge a good and bad Oum Kalthoum performance. Just thought i would add my 2 cents. -=Jamil=-

02-26-2007, 11:27 PM	#30 (permalink)
Simone min al Akariyah Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: DUS, Germany Posts: 80	Dear Kiraze, also felt a little discomfort once when Chryssanthi tried to let me know that I did not properly listen or misunderstood. She uses clear words instead of whatever polite expressions. The thing is: most of the time she is really not unright. She wants to show and teach us to see, feel and understand oriental dance. Most of our teachers cannot do it. - Therefore I appreciate her comments. Thanks, Helena, very surprising to hear that Shakira is the veil dancer. Now, I wonder how the people of Zahle (Shakira's father is Zahle raised) would assess this 'Enta Omri' interpretation. But I could imagine they would be slightly irritated.