Why is it called "tribal"?

Tarik Sultan

New member
Could somebody please link to a picture of what these are? I don't think I've seen them, or if I have, I didn't recognize them. Thanks!
they look something like this:
www.duipos.net
www.community.iexplore.com
www.istockphoto.com

If you go to Morocco's website and look at my tray dance photo, I'm wearing a Moroccan one...or was it Egyptian..can't remember. That was back in the days when I couldn't afford a real costume so I wore a black shirt, a pair of regular trousers and a camel tassel as a belt. I've come a long way baby!
 

Gabi

New member
The people who are offended by bedlah are not the type of people who watch dance generally speaking. The type of people that Zamora's talking about are the people who love and identify with the dance as a part of their culture. That's why they get offended when they see things that they perceive as distorting the reality of their culture.

As for Morocco's clips. She's working on it but it most likely wont happen till after Christmass because she's out of the country till then and will have to catch up on all her business when she gets back. You could go to her website and buy her DVDS. I'm glad you like my clips. I'll be adding some new ones soon.
Gotcha, thanks. I guess as I am not attached to any of my cultural background that way I don't quite "get" some of it without being told. I'm certainly not interested in pissing people off unless well, you know, some people are just too tempting :D .

OK then I'll look up Morocco's website and be looking around for goodies. Make sure to post links to your new clips :)
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Tribal, etc.

Dear Wildfire,
Good question, and I wish I knew the answer, too.
I think that not all people are aware that what they are doing is not authentically Middle Eastern because no one has ever told them. I think that some others feel that if it has a few authentic movements in it, then it is authentically Middle Eastern. Others simply do not know what to call what they are doing and call it by the name, "belly dance" because it is in danger of being handy catch-all term. This is extremely unfortunate and confusing for the student dancer and for the general public.
I would say, however, that the majority of people are not trying to mislead. They really have just gotten used to calling whatever they do "belly dance" because until recently it has just been accepted as such even when it is not. There is no malicious intention behind it, to my knowledge.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Dunyah

New member
Why do they call it Tribal?

Hi everyone,
This is in response to Aziyade's concerns way back on page 1. She wanted to know if Jamila's actual dance technique was authentic, even if some of her dance creations were not. Well, I have some new information. I recently purchased a Sareen el Safy video that was produced around 1998 (yeah, I know, I'm behind the times! :) .

In this video Shareen talks about the movements she will be presenting and she credits Jamila as her first teacher. Shareen states that some of the movements she is presenting she learned originally from Jamila. Shareen, as most of you know, for many years has studied and researched Egyptian dance with some of the greatest dancers of Egypt. She imentions the Jamila moves along with moves she learned form Mohamamad Ali Street dancers and from famous Egyptian dancers as well. She would not include something not authentic in her presentation of Egyptian dance.

Therefore, I conclude that at least some of the Jamila moves were/are authentic Egyptian moves.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Tribal etc.

Dear Dunya,
I think both Tarik and I talked about the fact that movement in and of itself is not the only element in dance. Jamila did indeed have some dance movements that were and are seen in authentic bellydance. so do Kaya and Sadie. I am not saying every single thing Jamila did was wrong, but only that she was not an authentic ethnic dancer. Context counts for a lot. I am sure if you questioned Shareen on it, she would say the same thing. Shareen is my favorite American dancer to study with and I have had several good discussion about dancers and dance with her outside the classroom. She may well have learned some good movements from jamila, but that does not mean Jamila was an authetnic ethnic dancer.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Dunyah

New member
Hi Aiaha,
I don't disagree with you, I am just trying to answer the question that aziyade was asking.

Best,Dunyah
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Tribal, etc.

Dear Dunyah,
I think it can not be overstressed that authentic movement and authentic dance are two different things. Probably everyone uses some authentic movement. Sorry if I got a lttle emphatic!
Regards,
A'isha
 

WildFire

New member
My instructor always goes on about authenticity. She get's extremely upset when people call their dance authentic egyptian when it's not. i guess if you don't understand what you're doing then all styles of bd looks authentic. since learning baladi i can certainly tell what is authentic and what isn't! i feel sorry for the people who don't know otherwise!
 

Aniseteph

New member
Another problem sorted

I wanted to share this one, made me LMAO after all these "what is...?" discussions...
Belly dancing is with one dancer, and tribal is with two or more. So this is tribal.
Source? comments on YouTube. :rolleyes:
 

Aniseteph

New member
I didn't bother to join in - life is too short to get involved with replying to ignorant comments on YouTube. Although if I ever post a clip myself I shall defend myself against the morons, for what it's worth...

Someone else explained that there was a little bit more to it than 1=bellydance, 2 or more=tribal. :naghty:

PS love your avatar Moon - nice font!
 
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Zumarrad

Member
*choke*

Sometimes I want to join tribal communities just to set them straight. I have seen some terrible misconceptions out there, despite people like Sharon and, good God, the FCBD website itself, being around to set them straight. I saw a quote on a tribe once where various people concluded somebody's teacher must be tribal because she danced mostly flat-footed and wore coins. GAH.
 

Tanjora

New member
I'd really like to know what about the way we dance (music, costume, movement) is NOT belly dance.
Steffi - the main reason ATS is not viewed as true bellydance by the larger bellydance community is that it is a highly Westernized form. Traditional belly dance tends to use a lot more torso movements and smaller, more intricate gestures (a big generalization, of course). ATS has a lot more emphasis on use of the limbs and very structured floor patterns, as well as more rhythmic dancing rather than melodic, and is therefore seen as not having the nuances needed for properly interpreting the Arabic music.
This is why the Tribal Fusion movement started. "Second generation" ATS dancers, most noteably members and former members of Ultra Gypsy, began reintegrating the Traditional vocabulary into the stylistic base of Tribal, creating a Tribal solo form that was more responsive to musical details. Rachel Brice is the most famous of these. She was a cabaret dancer for about 10 years before she became interested in Tribal, so it was a natural progression.
Hope that helps.
BTW, I am the Tribal teacher in Fresno.
: )
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Tribal, etc.

Dear Steffi and Tanjora,
There are many things today that are called "belly dance" which are not. Many alternarive offerings have even the same vocabulary and use a lot of the same music as belly dance. What is missing is not anything so tangible as costuming or movement, but instead a certain feeling and essence that is created when the cultural aspects of the dance are at the heart of what is being presented.
This is not in any way a put down for styles that are not belly dance. Styles outside the realm of belly dance often have something of intrinsic value to contribute to the dance scene. It is a matter of mislabeling rather than a lack of quality in the offering.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Kharmine

New member
I find this extremely interesting as I think I may have at least partly witnessed the start of "tribal dance" costuming!

I used to be very active in helping run Renaissance fairs in central California from about the late '80s to the late-'90s. Back in that day, we were striving for some measure of historical accuracy. We asked the belly dancers (I was not one at the time) to please wear something that looked like simple but colorful traditional Middle Eastern costumes from natural fibers, as opposed to the normal getup of 2-piece polyester cabaret outfits. The usual thing we suggested was a caftan, sash and some sort of head covering.

Well. sometimes they wore the recommended stuff, and sometimes they didn't. Word would get back to the organizers that the dancers found the 'traditional" costumes "stifling" and "boring." Then along came "Xena: Warrior Princess."

As the TV show progressed its storyline, "Amazon tribeswomen" attire started appearing on the dancers -- they started mixing the simpler Middle Eastern clothes with fancy turbans and headresses, and elaborate vests and pants. I thought it looked like a mish-mash, but it sure beat the cabaret outfits.

When I first started noticing the tribal dancers in other places, I thought that's what they were taking their fashion cues and some of the dance moves from -- "Xena: Warrior Princess."
 
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