Sexual education

[Nejmeh]

Strange topic, I know, but I do think its so important as so many women(and men) didn`t have any. A good friend of mine(21, raised here) asked me last week what some things meant a friend send her by sms. She didn`t know, but she did respond yes to the question. Besides this she isn`t stupid.

So, first, what are your opinions on if sexual education is necessesary. And if so, how much should you know? For example for that one, we had a televisionsow here in holland which was targeted at teenagers and students. The show caused a lot of discussion because it showed(mostly literally showed) how sex and drugs worked. For me, in the dutch society, that should be allowed, but I can imagine that this would be a bit too much for some other countries.






I put it in the debate section because I think this could cause some debate, if it doenst belong here, sorry!

 

[Darshiva]

I personally think that being informed is the only way to make an informed decision. I like the Dutch attitude and wish it was more widespread. Misinformation and ignorance are bad things, IMHO.

 

[Nejmeh]

I personally think that being informed is the only way to make an informed decision. I like the Dutch attitude and wish it was more widespread. Misinformation and ignorance are bad things, IMHO.

I totally agree, but what is being informed, how much do you need to know? And at what age? And how to inform? For example, should it be on 'how are babies made' or on 'what does sm mean'? Does an 8/12/16 year old girl have to know what a std is? Is it up to the school to inform, or up to the parents?

I don`t want to blow any praise trumpets for the dutch way btw, this show is actually a left over of how it once was*sigh*. We used to be very liberal, but that changed.

 

[~Diana~]

I had sexual education starting in grade 5. Many people don't even want to acknowledge today that kids are getting sexually active at even that age now a days. It also disturbes me royally when people 16 and older don't even know the names of their genitals or need to use a street name of them because they are so uncomfotable with using the real name.

It also disturbed me that people say it is not necessary but yet parents are not willing to talk to their own children about it. They complain about teenage pregnancy but then don't want anyone giving their children valid information. It KILLS me to hear teenagers and now some young adults who think that pulling out before hand means they won't get pregant. NONE of them now of pre-com that does contain some spearm.

I've read academic studies that have talked with children as young as 11 and 10 that have had sex!! Real sex not blow jobs. Oh and do you know many children don't consider blow jobs as sex! No they consider them the same way as just kissing!!

Oh and the parents that complain that giving their childen valid information will give them a free pass to go out and have sex. Really now, are you that disconneceted and untrustfull of your own child to think they are that stupid and unintelligent? All the people I've seen who had sex at that age are not having sex because they were given in formation, it's a combination of a whole bunch of other reasons that parents don't want to acknowledge becauase then it would look bad on them.

 

[da Sage]

So, first, what are your opinions on if sexual education is necessesary. And if so, how much should you know? For example for that one, we had a televisionsow here in holland which was targeted at teenagers and students. The show caused a lot of discussion because it showed(mostly literally showed) how sex and drugs worked. For me, in the dutch society, that should be allowed, but I can imagine that this would be a bit too much for some other countries.

I think that the abstinence-only teaching in public schools in the US is wrong. I think that these kids should be taught all about reproduction, sex acts, diseases, and contraception in school - even if it is couched as "after you get married, you will need contraception if you don't want to have kids right away." But then, I also think kids need to be taught about financial products, nutrition, and how to cook for themselves. And apparently kids need to be taught how to relate to other kids (non-bullying behavior, healthy relationship behavior).

I also believe that teenagers should be taught to carry and use condoms, even if they don't think they will need them...a friend might need them.

One thing I really hate about the US is that fact that it's OK for teens to be sexually active as long as they don't get pregnant - and if you have a baby, you somehow get blamed more for your actions than those who had abortions, or didn't get pregnant. I'd like to see a more realistic outlook on teen sexuality in general, with the focus on empowering teens (to be safe, to wait until they're ready, to be selective in their partners), instead of controlling them.

 

[Ariadne]

Oh and the parents that complain that giving their childen valid information will give them a free pass to go out and have sex. Really now, are you that disconneceted and untrustfull of your own child to think they are that stupid and unintelligent?

Ok, I am now going to tick off any teenagers and say "yes". Teenagers are going through a lot of hormonal changes and most of them do NOT think with their brains for several years concerning such things. Whether they hear it from school or from their friends there are those that will have to try it just because it sounds fun and their body is responding. I know I had several friends at that age who would have felt that by being told about it in school it was a "free pass" to go out and try it if not for the teacher pounding it into our heads that pregnancy could happen no matter what they did. As a result they got it from both their parents and the teacher to not to do it while still receiving a scientific explanation.

I think that the abstinence-only teaching in public schools in the US is wrong. I think that these kids should be taught all about reproduction, sex acts, diseases, and contraception in school - even if it is couched as "after you get married, you will need contraception if you don't want to have kids right away."

Neither of which works because of the inherent hypocrisy. Nothing ticks off teenagers more then being treated as children who couldn't do things just because they aren't adults yet. "Don't smoke it's bad for you *puff puff*." "Don't have sex it's bad for you but I can do whatever I want." They just don't buy it. That is why the only abstinence based teaching that has been successful didn't use the "you're not old enough" line but was scientifically based and taught them exactly what the consequences of sexual promiscuity are from syphilis to pregnancy. In contrast both the "abstinence only" and the "this is how it works" teaching gave the exact same results. Neither works.

 

[lizaj]

mmm The human race never seemed hampered by a lack of sexual education

 

[Shanazel]

My children (and my husband and I, for that matter) grew up in cattle and horse country, surrounded by all sorts of animals that did things that needed a clear explanation. When I was expecting my daughter, my then-three year old son asked what her "room" inside me looked like and I drew him a picture of womb, fallopian tubes, ovaries and "the baby shute." They learned about sex the way they learned about everything else: gradually.

When my son got serious about a girlfriend, we sat in the car one night after a movie and talked about the changes having sex brings in your life and the risks one takes. When my daughter was faced with sex education at school, she came home and said, "Why don't these people already know about this?" When my children got older, I deliberately left some very lovely picture books on an accessible shelf in the library so they could satisfy curiosity about other bodies without having to seek out the real things. (My son now has children of his own and says he wants those books for his own library someday.)

This is what worked for my family, but for others the education they receive in school may be the only dependable information they have access to.

 

[Darshiva]

I totally agree, but what is being informed, how much do you need to know? And at what age? And how to inform? For example, should it be on 'how are babies made' or on 'what does sm mean'? Does an 8/12/16 year old girl have to know what a std is? Is it up to the school to inform, or up to the parents?

I don`t want to blow any praise trumpets for the dutch way btw, this show is actually a left over of how it once was*sigh*. We used to be very liberal, but that changed.

My sister takes the approach of answering her kids' questions honestly and not dumbing things down for them. This is the approach I would take too. I think if you're old enough to ask a question, you're old enough to hear the answer. Being a former science-type (ex-lab tech) I would answer them in scientific terms, with textbooks to help me out. But then, that's a geek approach.

 

[Shanazel]

The geek approach works well- look how many there are! :dance:

 

[Kashmir]

Yes, I think sex education is necessary. Education is how humans try and make things better and easier for the next generation. Does anyone ever suggest we shouldn't teach kids how to cook or build houses? That they should somehow just pick it up?

In an ideal world children would learn gradually from the natural world and close family. But too many children never get to see animals mating or give birth these days. Families are often broken or twisted by their own lack of understanding or religious injunctions. One way to ensure that kids have a basic understanding is to teach it in schools.

Problem: children marure at different rates. Many years ago I taught sex-ed to 14 year olds. Within the same class there were those who were innocent yound children with no sexual feelings, young teenagers just starting to experiment with kisses, young men who had already tried a huge range of sexual activities involving all orifices you could imagine, at least one underage prostitute and a girl being sexually abused by her step-father. All I could do was inform them of basic biology, a warning of STDs, some pretty basic contraception and a warning that their was some pretty strong emotional stuff that would mess with their heads.

Some of these kids needed this several years earlier (at one point I too meet two 10 year olds who were engaging in full sexual intercourse). Some needed just the basics and then a top up when they were ready for more. At that time in NZ it was a single block in the 4th form. I think that has changed now.

 

[da Sage]

7

Neither of which works because of the inherent hypocrisy. Nothing ticks off teenagers more then being treated as children who couldn't do things just because they aren't adults yet. "Don't smoke it's bad for you *puff puff*." "Don't have sex it's bad for you but I can do whatever I want." They just don't buy it. That is why the only abstinence based teaching that has been successful didn't use the "you're not old enough" line but was scientifically based and taught them exactly what the consequences of sexual promiscuity are from syphilis to pregnancy. In contrast both the "abstinence only" and the "this is how it works" teaching gave the exact same results. Neither works.

My understanding is that "abstinence only" DOES delay average first intercourse by 6 months as compared to "this is how it works", but that "this is how it works" teenagers are more likely to use protection - and thus sexually transmitted disease are reduced.

I'm on the side of keeping as many kids safe from STDs and unintended pregnancy as possible. I don't think it's possible to keep teenagers from having sex (unless you lock them up in isolation wards), and while I might not be comfortable with the sexual choices some teenagers make, it's their lives. Being a sexually active teenager is like riding a motorcycle - it really helps to use protective gear. :lol:

 

[Amulya]

The geek approach works well- look how many there are! :dance:

I come from Holland as well and education was very good. My mother told me where baby's came from when I was 4, reason: I asked. I got a very detailed answer about egg-cells being fertilized. I already knew about cells DNA and such stuff (speaking of geeks haha)

In kindergarten we had education about where baby's came from, probably for the reason that some parents don't want to tell.

The actual sex education was in biology class when we were 13-14. That wasn't a quick education, but a lengthy one with several exams to check if you remembered all info right. This was one of the many topics on health: we also had one on nutrition for example.
Sex education very very good, it was not only about how women get pregnant, but also about every single STD possible plus the symptoms and what it would do long term, ways of anti-conception and even sexual acts (plus what things can cause diseases)

Due to this thorough education only 2 of the kids in my class had had sex at age 18, they were girlfriend and boyfriend for a while already. How we knew? One teacher brought the topic up in a way that it was non threatening and these two dared to admit. One girl mentioned that her mother had her at 16 and that that wasn't a good thing.

But there has been done studies in Holland what types of teenagers have sex early and they appeared to be the lower educated ones. It's strange but in those circles it is considered 'cool' and in my school it wasn't, it was more a thing of personal decision that had nothing to do with peer pressure. Peer pressure was not there in my school at all.

Regarding television education, there used to be some ok education very long time ago, but it spiraled quickly out of control and become plain p*rn (spelled like that because we don't want that word ending up connected on google with this site!) broadcast at a time where kids had access to it. Very very disturbing but there has been put a stop to it.

Some of these kids needed this several years earlier (at one point I too meet two 10 year olds who were engaging in full sexual intercourse). Some needed just the basics and then a top up when they were ready for more. At that time in NZ it was a single block in the 4th form. I think that has changed now.

Very disturbing! Another study been done in Holland was regarding young girls who had had sex, and in this study gynecologists/GP's had been involved who had young girls visiting their office because they had all sorts of medical problems because they had sex too young: being torn, infections due to abrasions etc. They said that young girls up till the age of 14 are not fully grown yet and it harms them. These girls often think that they are supposed to do it, they often don't like it, but just do it with older boys.

Disturbing fact is that it has become much more common in Holland for girls and boys to start so early.
And more disturbing stuff: due do to boys having access to p*rn (easy to get access now due to internet) at an very early age (sometimes 10) they think that what they see there is normal. A study amongst people in their early 20's resulted in some awful facts: many girls had been asked by guys for not so common sexual acts that they didn't want to do and the guys claiming that it was perfectly normal. And guys who had lots of casual sex have difficulties bonding with someone and have fear of relationships. And some younger guys freaked out when they saw their girlfriend naked for the first time: they didn't know women had pubic hair!

And to come with a totally opposite story: a friend of mine from Australia got kicked out of school for carrying a condom in his wallet! Instead of the headmaster being happy that someone was at least thinking about safety! Said friend didn't have sex, he just wanted to be safe in case it would happen.

 

[Belly Love]

Sex Education- extremely important! Sometimes people confuse sex education with intercourse education! My father would not allow me to attend sex ed in the 4th grade 'cause he thought it wasn't right. All it was was learning about periods and what repoductive parts were.

4th grade- menstration & reproductive parts
8th grade- how babies are made & stds
12th grade- stds, responsibilites of having babies

A few years ago I was dating a 33 year old man who did not know that you could get std's from oral sex... :shok: uhm, what?! I said, "Didn't you learn that in Junior High?" He didn't believe me so he googled it...

 

[Farasha Hanem]

I totally agree, but what is being informed, how much do you need to know? And at what age? And how to inform? For example, should it be on 'how are babies made' or on 'what does sm mean'? Does an 8/12/16 year old girl have to know what a std is? Is it up to the school to inform, or up to the parents?

I don`t want to blow any praise trumpets for the dutch way btw, this show is actually a left over of how it once was*sigh*. We used to be very liberal, but that changed.

oO;;; Ummm, what is "sm"?

 

[gisela]

SM like in sadism & masochism? I assume...

 

[Aniseteph]

Problem: children mature at different rates.

Exactly, and with what they are told at home being so variable it's inevitable that one size does not fit all when it comes to what is taught in school. But the idea that some might have their innocence spoiled or others might Get Ideas is not a good reason not to teach it IMO. People getting pregnant or catching STDs or getting pressured into things they don't want to do out of ignorance is terrible. Knowledge is power.

 

[Oona]

I found this Ted Talks video on sex education in Thailand VERY interesting...



Mechai Viravaidya: How Mr. Condom made Thailand a better place | Video on TED.com

I think this video would shock the h*ll out of most of conservative America!

Now on another note, as an ecologist, I see sex education as absolutely essential! Although animals ourselves, we fit less into the 'natural' scheme of population control that exists in most animal populations (at least those not completely altered by human intervention). Through medicine and technology we extend the lengths of our lives and the extent of our impact on the Earth, and in turn, we should be smart enough to know that putting a human on every square meter of the earth is not ecologically sound. But sometimes it seems that this is some sort of goal by people who do not understand how Earth's systems work.

Lower stable populations tend to be healthy, happy, well educated and better resourced whereas high populations are...well...welcome to Britain!

 

[da Sage]

That TED talk is interesting. I wish it were so easy to get birth control pills here in the US...you have to see a doctor or a nurse for them.

 

[Nejmeh]

oO;;; Ummm, what is "sm"?

Ow, sorry yes, what gisela said...

I think that actually touches the core of this discussion, how much do they need to know? My mom told me everything, starting with were babies came from at age too young to remeber untill explaining what all the 'specialistic stuff'(like s&m and so on)meanth when I was about 15. I seriously got groosed out sometimes but looking back, I am very happy that no one was ever able to leave me speecheless because I didn`t know what they were preposing or talking about!