Sadie... hmmmm...

LadyLoba

New member
She's probably my absolute favorite performer who does strictly belly dance. I like Kaya a lot too. I don't know anything about her private life...but then, I normally don't about celebrities, except for that stuff that you can't avoid because it's on a million times between real news stories..
 

Rania

New member
She's probably my absolute favorite performer who does strictly belly dance. I like Kaya a lot too. I don't know anything about her private life...but then, I normally don't about celebrities, except for that stuff that you can't avoid because it's on a million times between real news stories..

for awhile many where upset or talking about Sadies sexuelly explict tape that she did not know was put on video btw. But I could careless what she was caught doing. As long as your not hurting someone else I have respect for you. It about how you treat others and how good of a dancer you are.
 

Starmouth

New member
Ooh, pretty. I really liked her musical interpretation in this - not just popping and locking all over the place, just smooth, graceful dancing, only hitting a few of the accents.
 

Yame

New member
one style i've gotten into lately is the very dramatic russian dancer. I LOVE them. alla kushnir, daria mitskevitch, aleksandra dodenka, yasmin . lve them.

yame on youtube is good, so is cassandra fox - she does carribean fusion dancing. very good. theres others too.
I just came across this comment... thanks! That's very flattering :)

You should also check out Aida Bogomolova and Yana Tsehotskaya if you like those dancers.

Judging by this post and some other posts you've made on other threads, I'd say you're most drawn to Egyptian style and its variants. Although the way the Russians dance to Egyptian music is different from the way Egyptians generally dance to it, I think it's closer to Egyptian style than certain American styles (Suhaila-based styles, pan-Middle Eastern/Mediteranean styles that evolved in the US and took a lot of influence from Turkish, Greek, etc).

They go to Egypt to study, or study with dancers who have been there, they learn the folkloric dances, they learn the meaning of the music and they respond similarly to the way Egyptians do, except they tend to make their movements bigger, exaggerate the expressions even more, and throw in a lot more backbends than an Egyptian would. Often they might "fill" the song more than an Egyptian would, because their performances are often in competition settings and they must wow their judges in a short period of time. Also, because they have more intense physical training (I assume), their spines are more flexible and they bend themselves into shapes normal people can't get into, among other differences.

But still, I find that the way they "hear" the music is closer to the way Egyptians hear the music than say, Sadie's. The types of movements they do, even if more exaggerated, are the same types of movements Egyptians might do. And the emotional response, even if exaggerated, is similar to Egyptians'.

Sadie, on the other hand, interprets the music in a very un-Egyptian way, I find that her musicality and the kinds of movements she does are much more like Suhaila's, except she does them bigger. Additionally, there is an emotional disconnect with the music... her facial expression is almost blank, or there might be a bit of a smile, but she does not try to interpret the feeling of the song with facial expressions the way Russians and Egyptians often do. So if that isn't the style you are drawn to, then it's natural that you won't be drawn to Sadie's dancing.
 

jjj

New member
for awhile many where upset or talking about Sadies sexuelly explict tape that she did not know was put on video btw. But I could careless what she was caught doing. As long as your not hurting someone else I have respect for you. It about how you treat others and how good of a dancer you are.
Hmm, so their might be truth in learning belly dancing can help keep a sexually active lifestyle :think:
 

Sophia Maria

New member
for awhile many where upset or talking about Sadies sexuelly explict tape that she did not know was put on video btw. But I could careless what she was caught doing
Wait, I hadn't heard about this, what happened?

I think Sadie has absolutely flawless technique, and that impresses me every time I watch her, but I always end up getting bored because she puts forth minimal personality...and she tends to have very busy choreography that in my mind rarely reflects the accents in the music. For example, in the Zeina video, she executes a PERFECT flutter, but for no reason at all. It's the wrong style and theres no accent in the music to prompt it. I think she did very well with the drum solo posted on the previous page in this thread, but still there wasn't much personality...
 

Ariadne

Well-known member
Sadie was in Taxicab Confessions back in 2002. It had nothing to do with BD just an explicit conversation in the back of a cab in Las Vegas. She has to have been fully aware of it being "put on video" however since the customers have to sign a waver at the end of the ride in order for their "Confessions" to be aired on the show.

Do a search for previous threads on Sadie and you will find an eyeful. She's provided plenty of material for people to.
 

Rania

New member
I know shes worked with souhail Kasper, as well. I have spoken with him. if any one knows who he is!
 

Ahava_Melantha

New member
I just came across this comment... thanks! That's very flattering :)

You should also check out Aida Bogomolova and Yana Tsehotskaya if you like those dancers.

Judging by this post and some other posts you've made on other threads, I'd say you're most drawn to Egyptian style and its variants. Although the way the Russians dance to Egyptian music is different from the way Egyptians generally dance to it, I think it's closer to Egyptian style than certain American styles (Suhaila-based styles, pan-Middle Eastern/Mediteranean styles that evolved in the US and took a lot of influence from Turkish, Greek, etc).

They go to Egypt to study, or study with dancers who have been there, they learn the folkloric dances, they learn the meaning of the music and they respond similarly to the way Egyptians do, except they tend to make their movements bigger, exaggerate the expressions even more, and throw in a lot more backbends than an Egyptian would. Often they might "fill" the song more than an Egyptian would, because their performances are often in competition settings and they must wow their judges in a short period of time. Also, because they have more intense physical training (I assume), their spines are more flexible and they bend themselves into shapes normal people can't get into, among other differences.

But still, I find that the way they "hear" the music is closer to the way Egyptians hear the music than say, Sadie's. The types of movements they do, even if more exaggerated, are the same types of movements Egyptians might do. And the emotional response, even if exaggerated, is similar to Egyptians'.

Sadie, on the other hand, interprets the music in a very un-Egyptian way, I find that her musicality and the kinds of movements she does are much more like Suhaila's, except she does them bigger. Additionally, there is an emotional disconnect with the music... her facial expression is almost blank, or there might be a bit of a smile, but she does not try to interpret the feeling of the song with facial expressions the way Russians and Egyptians often do. So if that isn't the style you are drawn to, then it's natural that you won't be drawn to Sadie's dancing.
LOVE the 2 new dancers. also i LOVE the dramatic expressions of lots of russian and ukrainian belly dancers. absolutely love it. thanx so much for the advice.

one thing i've noticed - egyptian is harder than it looks, lol. i know lots of ppl don't like it cuz they don't think its very "skilled" but it is lol. it very much is.

thanx so much for the advice. maybe i'm headed in the right direction. am ALWAYS tryin to expand my skill set.
 

Sophia Maria

New member
Sadie was in Taxicab Confessions back in 2002. It had nothing to do with BD just an explicit conversation in the back of a cab in Las Vegas. She has to have been fully aware of it being "put on video" however since the customers have to sign a waver at the end of the ride in order for their "Confessions" to be aired on the show.

Do a search for previous threads on Sadie and you will find an eyeful. She's provided plenty of material for people to.
Thanks, I looked up the reference. Youtube actually took the video down a while ago I guess, but I read a description of the episode and am kind actually glad I can't see it.

I just lost any modicum of respect I ever had for Sadie sorry, plus that rap music video with her and Kaya...:mad:
 

Yame

New member
Thanks, I looked up the reference. Youtube actually took the video down a while ago I guess, but I read a description of the episode and am kind actually glad I can't see it.

I just lost any modicum of respect I ever had for Sadie sorry, plus that rap music video with her and Kaya...:mad:
Okay, can we please stop with the Taxicab Confession "slut shaming" nonsense? I can understand being upset that a belly dancer is presenting belly dance in an unpleasant, sexual way and I agree Sadie and Kaya have done this and it might merit our disapproval (the distasteful rap video about belly dance, the Rakkasah performance), but what Sadie and anyone else does outside the context of belly dance is their own business. So what if she talked about sex in a TV show? She didn't even mention being a belly dancer there. Why should you care? Why do you care? Why do you have "no respect" for a woman just because she's sexually active and talks about it? Where are we, Saudi Arabia? Women are free to do what they wish and they shouldn't be disrespected for such choices.
 

gisela

Super Moderator
Well said Yame!
If people's gonna judge, then judge her on her abilities to teach or dance, not her private life, which is private. She should be respected as any human being should be, and she should get respect for the hard work she puts in, just as any other dancer.
 

Rania

New member
But what Sadie and anyone else does outside [/B]the context of belly dance is their own business. She didn't even mention being a belly dancer there. Why should you care? Why do you care? Why do you have "no respect" for a woman just because she's sexually active and talks about it? Women are free to do what they wish and they shouldn't be disrespected for such choices.
Well said Yame. I have been thinking that for a long time. One member said to me while I was sticking up for Sadie, months ago, "If you dont want to be caught, dont do things like that." However, how about people stop making tapes like this on people. I find it wrong that someone put it on a video. And everyone else sits back and comments how terrible and sleazy Sadie is. I bet 98% of those people who say those things could get caught doing something they dont want to be seen.

As far as Sadie being considered the best. A belly dancers talent is in the eye of the beholder. Some may consider her the best others dont. We all have our favorites. Sadie is in my top favorites. But I also have favorites who many never heard of.

Some find Didem to be a super talented and she is considered a household name. However i cant see what they see. Shes pretty. I find her dancing to not be my taste. However I hope Didem continues doing what she does and pleasing her fans, despite my opinion.
 
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Ariadne

Well-known member
It is important Yame because of comments like this:
Hmm, so their might be truth in learning belly dancing can help keep a sexually active lifestyle :think:
Hence why it was important to clear up that that particular reference had nothing to do with BD.

If people's gonna judge, then judge her on her abilities to teach or dance, not her private life, which is private.
It is not private once someone signs their release to have it broadcast to the world. If they want it kept private then they actually need to keep it private. This was not a case of some papparazzi making a scoop without their knowledge or approval so righteous indignation for their sakes is rather misplaced.


All the same if the Confessions video was all there was would anyone really care? I doubt it very much. It's when you combine it with actions that do involve BD (Rakkasah, Rap Video) then it shows a consistent behavior on her part of publicizing her "sexuality". At that point the Confessions video becomes one of a whole picture of how she wants to be publicly recognized. For us to then recognize that after all her hard work is hardly disrespecting her.

  • I have heard that she is a sweet person and a great teacher.
  • I was very impressed with her technique in performing when I first began BDing.
  • I then realized that she favors technique over emotionally connecting to the music, a lot.
  • I don't approve of the public image she deliberately projects for Bellydancers.
  • I recognize that her BD troop (Grove De Monde) was intentionally created to compete with adult entertainment troops (Circ De Soleil).
  • I am not interested.

None of that is disrespectful, only factual.

  • Sadie has deliberately created a highly sexual image for herself as a dancer. Fact.
  • The public image of highly publicized artists can affect others in the field. Fact.
  • The ones who have the right to criticize an artist is their peers and their customers. Fact.

So now she's been criticized, so what?
 

Yame

New member
It is not private once someone signs their release to have it broadcast to the world. If they want it kept private then they actually need to keep it private. This was not a case of some papparazzi making a scoop without their knowledge or approval so righteous indignation for their sakes is rather misplaced.
No, it's not private but that doesn't change the fact that it's personal. It's her personal life and it's none of your business. It really isn't. There is no reference to belly dance in the Taxicab Confessions video, therefore there is no reason whatsoever for belly dancers to take offense to it.

Also just because she did at one point consent to publish the video doesn't mean that is necessarily something she is proud of now. Maybe she is, but maybe she isn't. We all do stupid things in life we regret later on. To bring back something from her past that has nothing to do with dance just to shame her is cruel and unnecessary.

And the people who are constantly bringing this up are the same people who justify it by saying it's in the name of belly dance, because she gives it a bad reputation, bla bla bla. But guess what? No one who saw the video when it aired knew she was a belly dancer, and none of the GP who know her as a belly dancer (from youtube or from seeing her on America's Got Talent or whatever) would know about the Taxicab Confessions if not for the belly dancers who are constantly bringing it up. What are the chances anyone has even seen that, and furthermore, that anyone who has seen it would recognize her? None. None without you people pointing it out.

I remember when her AGT clip was getting posted, there were belly dancers on there telling people about Taxicab Confessions purposely to bring her down. How is that helpful to anybody? This either makes belly dancers look like a catty bunch who will say anything to bring each other down, or it does exactly what these people say they are trying to protect belly dance from: an over-sexualized image. The people who would be turned off from belly dance because one belly dancer happened to talk about sex on Taxicab Confessions are now turned off because you pointed out that Sadie did this when they otherwise would not even have known. So, please, save me that excuse.

People are sexual. Some are more than others. Some people are public about it. People in every field, not just belly dance. We are belly dancers, not nuns. You have all the right to criticize her professional work and her portrayal of belly dance, and Pete knows I've criticized her plenty for the latter and that her style does nothing for me, but I will defend to the death her right to do as she pleases with her life without being judged as if she was supposed to conduct herself like a saint just because she's a belly dancer.
 

gisela

Super Moderator
I don't mind critisism of Sadie as a dancer. I do it too as I am not a fan of hers at all. I don't like the image she choose to project for bellydance.

My opinion is that a tv-show that has nothing to do with bellydance, where the word bellydance is not used, where she was only recognized by the bellydance environment a long time after the show was made and aired, should not mean that she is being called names and people losing all respect. I said private life but I guess I should have said mundane life, as in life outside bellydance.

Edit: read Yames answer and yes, I agree completely

When I first saw the clip posted on bhuz, the person who put it up on youtube was anonymous and had that ONE clip on the channel. Sooo... I might be making assumptions but it felt like someone was actively out to get her...
 
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Yame

New member
I don't mind critisism of Sadie as a dancer. I do it too as I am not a fan of hers at all. I don't like the image she choose to project for bellydance.

My opinion is that a tv-show that has nothing to do with bellydance, where the word bellydance is not used, where she was only recognized by the bellydance environment a long time after the show was made and aired, should not mean that she is being called names and people losing all respect. I said private life but I guess I should have said mundane life, as in life outside bellydance.
Exactly. If you want to debate the image she portrays of belly dance I'm all for it, and I can make a very strong case for why I don't like how she presents belly dance (the rap video was horrific, and by the descriptions I've read the Rakkasah performance was too). I can also make a very strong case for why I am not interested in her style. And I can do all that without bringing up anything that is unrelated to belly dance that she might have done in her life.

Not that she is being called names in this thread, thankfully, but I've seen this discussion a million times before and it's always what it turns into. I'm not asking anyone to like Sadie as a dancer, I'm not asking anyone to support her work, I'm not even asking anyone to like her as a person. If her behavior isn't something you condone then that's fine but have some respect for her as a human being.

I know belly dancers who have posed topless or nude and I wouldn't dream of using that against them, even if I didn't like them as dancers or as people.
 

Rania

New member
I feel guilty for even talking about Sadie taxi cab confessions now. Someone brough it up several post before mine.

And I just googled Daria Mitskevich, I see why you like her.
 
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Ariadne

Well-known member
No, it's not private but that doesn't change the fact that it's personal. It's her personal life and it's none of your business. It really isn't. There is no reference to belly dance in the Taxicab Confessions video, therefore there is no reason whatsoever for belly dancers to take offense to it.
Nice rant. None of it addresses the fact that it's neither personal nor private once it is published with her consent, or that lines were already drawn by jjj between BD and sexuality because of a reference to it, or that she has deliberately created a sexually charged/adult entertainment image for the general public. As I said before it is only of interest in that she has continued to publish sexually charged material in BD itself. It is one link in a chain of ongoing behavior that is recognized by the BD community. animadanza didn't just reference the Confessions video when she said she lost respect for her did she.

As I said before would anyone care if it was all there was? You can rant all you want about the possibility of it being a youthful "mistake" on her part and call those who don't respect her names or accuse us of publicly shaming her but none of that changes the fact that she encouraged the image. Perhaps she and Kaya are trying to change that and if so I wish them the best. I just checked out their web pages and their earlier references to "exotic" or comparisons with Circ De Soleil are now gone. All I found was a single phrase of “The hottest shows ever performed in a nightclub;”. It's an improvement. Either way it is something they themselves have to do to fix. They are the ones who created the controversy, only they can fix it, and ranting at others who recognize an ongoing behavior pattern makes no difference.

I know belly dancers who have posed topless or nude and I wouldn't dream of using that against them, even if I didn't like them as dancers or as people.
I agree, yet if they BD'ed topless or nude it would be perfectly legitimate to bring it up when under discussion. This is no different.
 
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