Plus Size Dancers

[Tarik Sultan]

I know you will get here dear Tarik, but I am in lose of What to make of what you trying to say. I hope it's not What think you saying .....

DAMN IT! If you would learn Spanish like I told you to, you'd understand my jokes!

all what I was saying is man are reprogram to like curvy ladies they just don't admit it. If they have the chose between two thin ladies most probably will go for the heaver one. of course their is always exception to the rules. and those are the one who Extinct along with the dinosaur.

Its a joke based on the known fact that the fashion industry is dominated by gay men. Therefore, since they keep pushing this image of the perfect woman as one with no hips, no boobs, no curves one wonders. Does the reason they keep pushing an image of the perfect woman as having a body that looks like a young boy in the early stages of puberty have anything to do with the fact that they are attracted to young men?:think:

Just think, by today's standards Marilyn Monroe would be considered fat!

 

[Mya]

Just think, by today's standards Marilyn Monroe would be considered fat!

I have that curvy Marilyn Monroe figure (which i hate but am trying to reprogram myself to love). As you said about Marilyn being fat - i once saw or read - it was a while ago - something where they were showed you a photo of marilyn and they pointed out all of the things they would have to do to her to turn her into today's iconic beauty. There were more than 9 procedures! It was disturbing - they would have to do liposuction on her knee caps! who the hell ever heard of having knees that were too fat!

This was one of the things that made a large impact on the way i view my body and how absurd it is to feel the need to look like models/actresses, some of which keep themselves very unhealthily to achieve that waif look that's been in for way too long.

Actually i really like that new line of advertisements that Dove (i think) has been producing where they actually show women how the media creates false images of "beauty" by altering photos and such. It's nice to have the same media that has been brainwashing females for so long work in our favour now. Those ads have also made a big difference in how i view myself and i'm glad that people are starting to recognise how dangerous this constant "thin is in" mentality is.

 

[FadilahBellydance]

I'm sorry for your experience

I was very upset to read your post. Bellydancing is about self-empowerment and feeling like you are beautiful no matter what size you are. Its a terrible thing in this world that women don't support other women and that people think that you have to be skinny to be beautiful. I don't know where you live but if its anywhere near Frederick, Maryland you are VERY welcome in my class! Your former teacher should be ASHAMED of herself for allowing this to happen to you and joining in on it. If you liked bellydancing, I say put your coin belt back on and do it!
-Pam at Fadilah Bellydance

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Just a few thought on 'fat'.

I was told years ago that fat was a sign of wealth and beauty, skinniness was a sure sign of poverty.

These days it seems to have spun the other way.
Fat is associated with 'low class' and 'Skininess' with wealthier people.

The newspapers are regularly showing us 'Fat' areas of the UK and all are North of Birmingham.
Northern and Scottish women have always appeared to be bigger built than the very southern English. I put this down to it being perhaps about colder climates and diet.

A friend said to me, if this was the case then all of Scandanavia would also be 'well built'.

The problem we have in the inner citys these days is fast food and cheap food containing shit with high salt and fat is affordable. People need stodge to fill them and stop them from feeling hungry.

I see the same happenning in Egypt now.

The cheap food like foul and tamaya is cheap. Meat is out of price range for most and fruit and vegetables now cost a similar price per Kilo to the UK.

I notice that many of the richer girls are very slim and go to the Gym.

There are slimming clinics and all sorts of drugs avertised everywhere but apart from the small few who dance for tourists, 95% of all other dancers have love handles and more than one belly and cellulite and always have.

It is considered the norm and they wear the same costumes no matter what. We may think it is unsightly etc. but I am happy that somewhere in the world there are still people who get to see what an average womans body looks like.

 

[sedoniaraqs]

Regarding curvy figures, Marilyn Monroe, healthy weights, etc.

To me, curvy means an hourglass figure. Specifically, a larger hip to waist ratio is what biologists will tell you is important to men with regard to female physical attractiveness. Curvy boobs, hips, and rear, with a relatively smaller waist.

To the degree that in some women, putting on a few pounds means adding to these areas, then yes, fat adds to the curves. The problem is, fatter doesn't mean curvier for many people (certainly, it doesn't for me). If you look at how people in the U.S are getting fat these days, you will see people carrying around alot of visceral belly fat. In females, this tends to decrease the hip to waist ratio, not increase it. Personally, I think it has alot to do with the crappy diet we eat: refined carbs, corn syrup, trans fats, and huge portion sizes, all of which are leading to epidemic proportions of type II diabetes among other health problems.

Regarding Marilyn -- I think she gets used to justify arguments that somehow our ideals of beauty have become more skewed since the 1950's, or to justify obesity as not being unhealthy. Google her name and then hit "images". This woman was never fat, even by today's standards. It makes no sense to compare her to a fashion super model because she was never a fashion super model. Compare her to other actresses and her body type doesn't stand out as larger at all. There are plenty of curvy actresses who are considered beautiful and sex symbols today -- think Jennifer Lopez. There is a popular urban myth that her clothes ranged up to a 16 (snopes.com: Marilyn Monroe's Dress Size) which makes her sound quite plump, but read the snopes article I just linked. Clothes ran smaller back then. So in Marilyn's day a size 12 dress probably wasn't what it is today, and a hamburger and fries from a diner would be about the size of a kids meal today.

 

[Amri_]

Maybe I'm wrong. Ignore me as usually, but I think that not the FAST FOOD itself, but the amount of this fast food or food itself harms( if U eat big portions of normal, "useful" food it also may cause overweight.) ...As for me, I think that a woman is attractive and good-looking only when she loves herself the way she is, when she enjoys this life( because in this case her smile is always shining brighter than diamonds, eyes arefull of life energy, that, indeed, attracts), and for sure, when she pays atention to her looks. I've known many of "big girls" who were crazy popular among men, and they would be adored by slimmer ladies. But if this topic has appeared on forums, it means that not all d ladies here are happy with their weight.... Men like what we make them like. Even if a girl is not a covergal, if she is womanly smart, she can make any man believe that all those " model girls" are like a pop music: annoying & not interesting. Not weight makes U an attractive woman, but ur nature...If U are THE REAL WOMAN, any man will notice it . And all slimmer "girlie girls" will envy you...

 

[Caroline_afifi]

... Men like what we make them like. QUOTE]

Do you offer training courses? :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Amri_]

Caroline, I don't... LOL! But if U need one, you get it Any time, gal :lol:

 

[Caroline_afifi]

:lol:

Caroline, I don't... LOL! But if U need one, you get it Any time, gal :lol:

well it would drastically improve the quality of my life!! :lol:

You could earn a bloody fortune.

 

[Amri_]

:lol:

well it would drastically improve the quality of my life!! :lol:

You could earn a bloody fortune.

ummm, what kind of fortune U refer to???:think:

And the secret is simple: if U don't like urself the way U are, U have to be good at lying to urself that U love urself the way U are. It always works

 

[Caroline_afifi]

ummm, what kind of fortune U refer to???:think:

And the secret is simple: if U don't like urself the way U are, U have to be good at lying to urself that U love urself the way U are. It always works

:lol::lol::lol:

I will give it my best.

As for the fortune, I was meaning men women would sign up and pay good money for a course like that. Although I think men are much more free thinking than we dare to imagine.

Sometimes if I ask my husband a question, he says in a quiet voice to himself..'what was the right answer again?'

it is often a standing joke with men.

 

[Amri_]

:lol::lol::lol:

I will give it my best.

As for the fortune, I was meaning men women would sign up and pay good money for a course like that. Although I think men are much more free thinking than we dare to imagine.

Sometimes if I ask my husband a question, he says in a quiet voice to himself..'what was the right answer again?'

it is often a standing joke with men.

:lol::lol::lol:

Well, the course would probably bring the fortune, lol! But I think that when a person feels that there's smth wrong in his/her life, he or she should find an answer and the solution into himself/herself.. I think that in such delicate qiestions like smn's soul there's no better advisers but you are.. As we say it here, in russia:" a stranger's soul is always shady"

 

[Mya]

This woman was never fat, even by today's standards.

I don't believe i claimed that she was obese - as a matter of fact my point was that she's NOT and yet still to compare to today's beauty image according to the particular magazine i read, she would have to do liposuction on her knees among other things. THAT is why it seemed absurd and to me yes that does say that our image of beauty is skewed if a woman with a lovely healthy body is judged to need liposuction of the knees for heaven's sake!

It makes no sense to compare her to a fashion super model because she was never a fashion super model.

In Marilyn's time the actress was the icon more than the model i would say (just my opinion of course) - i could be wrong. In today's world it seems to me that the icon is the model. If you're comparing icons of beauty, which i was; then i don't see anything wrong with the comparison - it would be another story if one were arguing that she's fatter than today's actress.

There are plenty of curvy actresses who are considered beautiful and sex symbols today -- think Jennifer Lopez.

Frankly I find Jennifer Lopez to be the exception that proves the rule. I can't think of "plenty" curvy actresses at all who are considered beautiful and sex symbols. I actually remember Renee Zellweger (or however it's spelt) trying to fly so far away from her Bridget Jones image that she went to an extreme sickly thin. What i remember is one of those olsen girls looking incredibly ill. And what i can never forget is America Ferrera being far more famous for being UGLY Betty (because she couldn't get the same message accross being normal betty??) than for being Ana Garcia in Real Women Have Curves and Glamour doing this to her image :
Skinny Betty Ayyyy!

I am not angry with you or anything here, this is not a personal attack (we seem to have so many misinterpreted messages here i just want to be clear) - i just really disagree with some of your point.

 

[shiradotnet]

I just read all 16 pages of this thread. Whew! What an adventure!

On the subject of whether one should offer classes solely for plus-sized students, it's not something I would do myself, but it wouldn't bother me to learn that someone else is doing it. Recently, I needed to move my classes to a different venue, and one of the places I spoke to as a possible home was the local senior center. I decided not to work with them at that time because they would have required me to accept ONLY students age 50 and over, and I was needing a venue that my existing students could come to.

Their logic made sense to me - they feared that some of their age-50-and-over students might feel intimidated being in an exercise-oriented class with younger, fitter bodies, and they didn't want that to be a deterrent. They felt that inter-generational belly dance classes already existed in the community for those seniors that didn't mind being in the same class as younger students, and they wanted their venue to serve as a kind of safe haven for those seniors who preferred to eschew those existing classes.

Bringing the conversation back to plus-sized students, those who don't mind being in the same class as thin people are already in classes with thin people. But how many others out there might be intimidated by the idea of being seen in exercise clothes by others that they fear might be judgmental? As the owner of Belly Dancing -- Art Of Middle Eastern Dance -- Bellydancing in Iowa City, I receive lots of emails from people who confide about their situations, and I do hear from quite a number of larger women who have decided to learn belly dance from video at home precisely because they are too embarrassed about their size to attend a class. Their logic is that they'll start classes "after I lose some of this weight".

Another interesting data point: There are two Yahoo groups dedicated to belly dancing discussions for plus-sized women. I wouldn't say they're high-traffic, but they do exist. I recently posted a question on one of them asking whether the "Belly Dancing for Full-Figured Women" web site that I started in 2001 should continue to exist as a stand-alone web site, or whether I should just merge its contents into Belly Dancing -- Art Of Middle Eastern Dance -- Bellydancing in Iowa City and discontinue it. The overwhelming response was that I should keep it as a separate web site. People liked the fact that I made it easy for them to find information and resources specific to their needs. Not one person said I should discontinue it and merge its contents into shira.net.

I personally believe that thin women have just as many insecurities about themselves as plus-sized ones. The insecurities may be different, but they're there. Speaking for myself, I like to teach mixed classes with all ages and body types, and provide an encouraging environment in which everyone feels free to explore this dance. But I realize that there are some would-be students whose insecurities won't let them try a class with people who are younger, thinner, etc. than them.

 

[Amri_]

Why i cant delee my posts mself???????

 

[Amri_]

erm..........

Cmon Gals, Jennifer is fine.... Think abt smn like Latisha Queen.She's a plus size..... She's the really curvy acteress... Not Jessica Alba, but anyways, a good & beloved actress!And tat's because she has her own speciality! Dont U tink so? :clap:

And, Shiradotnet as 4 me, I'd never attend such ourses , even if I was a very not self-confident plus size gal, but as 4 I s asked in a joking manner, I answered in a joking manner, you see

 

[shiradotnet]

I am new to belly dancing (less then a year). I really love it but I have a problem and I was wondering if you ladies can help me. I am a plus size lady and I find it so hard to find any support from the belly dance community. I thought that belly dance was to empower you and make you feel like a woman and to have a place that all women (no matter what size or shape) can come together and celebrate being a woman and the love of the dance. All I have been receiving is hatred and negativity. I was once in a class to learn belly dance and all I heard was rude and nasty comments, even from the teacher.

Hi! I'm in the process of re-launching a web site I originally created in 2001 to assist plus-sized dancers in finding support. You can find it at this link: Bellydance for Plus-Sized Women .

 

[LeylaLanty]

Hi! I'm in the process of re-launching a web site I originally created in 2001 to assist plus-sized dancers in finding support. You can find it at this link: Bellydance for Plus-Sized Women .

Great website re-launch, Shira! I love the new look. Thanks for making this valuable information available again. When it's complete (if it's not yet there) how about an easy to find link to it from Belly Dancing -- Art Of Middle Eastern Dance -- Bellydancing in Iowa City, either with a direct link on the front page under "Belly Dancing Information" or on the "Links" page under "Belly Dancing Information".

 

[shiradotnet]

Great website re-launch, Shira! I love the new look. Thanks for making this valuable information available again. When it's complete (if it's not yet there) how about an easy to find link to it from Belly Dancing -- Art Of Middle Eastern Dance -- Bellydancing in Iowa City, either with a direct link on the front page under "Belly Dancing Information" or on the "Links" page under "Belly Dancing Information".

Hi Leyla! Thanks for the feedback! I agree with you that I need to use the power of my original shira.net site to make the Bellydance Plus! site more visible. I do already have a link to it on my shira.net links page. I'll give some thought to your suggestion of linking to it from the home page.

I have some other ideas on how to raise its visibility as well. For example, there are some articles that exist as duplicates on both sites, such as the article on belly dance and weight loss. I'm thinking I might remove some (or all) of those from shira.net, and replace them with links to where they exist on Bellydance Plus - with appropriate text warning the user that they're about to go to a different web site for those articles. I think that'll help a lot to raise awareness.

 

[Artemocion Malta]

This was one of the things that made a large impact on the way i view my body and how absurd it is to feel the need to look like models/actresses, some of which keep themselves very unhealthily to achieve that waif look that's been in for way too long.

Actually i really like that new line of advertisements that Dove (i think) has been producing where they actually show women how the meda creates false images of "beauty" by altering photos and such. It's nice to have the same media that has been brainwashing females for so long work in our favour now. Those ads have also made a big difference in how i view myself and i'm glad that people are starting to recognise how dangerous this constant "thin is in" mentality is.

hmm Believe me surgery does not make you look good it makes you look like you had surgery. And if looking like the ultimate plastic barbie is the new look..well we will rather be old fashioned. I love the line of Dove too !