Opinion on photo "issue"

[MissVega]

So as any dancer has experienced, when you perform there is always at least one person taking your photo, and most of the time (if you're anything like me at least lol) you cringe at the sight of most photos.

But I recently was at a competition and got to compete in Champion of Champions (all the category winners had to compete against one another) and a professional photographer at the event photographed it and posted photos. Unfortunately all of the photos that he took of me and posted I thought were unflattering photos. It was by no means a reflection of my thoughts of his skills as a photographer, but rather me just simply not liking how I looked in them. I told him that I didn't find them flattering but that I appreciated him sharing them with him and complimented on the photos of another dancer. He has removed the photos.

Now I can't decide if it is better to have people who see the album not know I competed (since my photos are no longer in the album) or have really unflattering photos of myself in the album LOL. Very catch 22.

***I did message the photographer after I saw that he had taken them down to point out that my dislike of the photos was based on my own insecurities and not a reflection on his skills as a photographer or a criticism to them as I didn't want him to misunderstand and I was feeling really bad that he might of taken it that way****

 

[Shanazel]

I feel your pain, Cassandra.

Photos done in conjuction with a news article written about a class I taught up north last week were disheartening. Of all the clicking that took place with that camera surely there was one in which I did not have my mouth open? :think:

 

[MissVega]

This has in fact been one of the hardest parts of becoming a dancer (for me anyway) was getting used to having my photo taken and not having control of said photo. I used to avoid having my photo taken at all costs (unless I was with my horse or with friends) it was rare to get a photo of me. I've got a very asymmetrical face and I'm not photogenic. Sure out of tons of photos I can usually find a couple of photos I like but I still find it hard

I never want to hurt photographer's feelings but at the same time I don't like the idea of bad photos of me floating around the internet.

**BIG HUG SHANAZEL**. I've had bad photos wind up in local papers too. Makes you die a little inside eh. It was worse that i had friends texting and teasing me asking if I was pregnant since the photographer decided to use a moment where I had my stomach extended out :naghty:

 

[Ariadne]

*raises hand* Artist here. Everyone has an asymmetrical face. Symmetrical faces are actually scary and the more "perfect" someones features are the creepier it is. Your features are also very expressive. Pictures you may find unattractive because you are magnifying and focusing on your own self-perceived flaws others may find delightful because they are looking and seeing something else entirely. Please stop being so critical of yourself, you're perfect in your humanness and beautiful just as you are.

 

[Shanazel]

Another artist here. Symmetrical faces are good for selling perfume, haute couture and toilet paper and while I don't want to insult those with perfect symmetry I prefer asymmetry myself. Heck, I don't even like the pictures on my wall to hang straight.

I've seen a good share of your pictures and photos, C, and I haven't come across what I considered an unflattering one yet. Of course maybe I am influenced by what I have come to know about you over time on OD: that you are not only multi-talented but generous as well, always ready to encourage others and cheer them on at every opportunity.

It's true, you know. Beautiful is as beautiful does.

 

[Mosaic]

Oh Cassandra, I honestly doubt any photo of you would be unflattering. We are hardest on ourselves, and will always find something wrong in a photo. You are a very attractive young lady and like Shan I have never seen any photo or video of you that is unflattering in any way whatsoever. Choose one you think the least unflattering and let him display that one or get a couple of the photos and show us here I am picking they are lovely and very "you"
~Mosaic

 

[Aniseteph]

What Mosaic and everyone else said. How bad are those pics floating round the internet going to be? I'd put money on it that we've all seen much worse, and probably featured in a few too. And got tagged on FB. <sigh>

Anyone who matters will know to go and look at your gorgeous clips, and you have NOTHING to worry about there. Nothing at all.

 

[Amulya]

Had an issue myself recently, not sure how this works! A photographer took my picture, photoshopped it and put it on her site. I asked her if I could have the picture which was fine, but I only got a small version as she 'doesn't give out bigger versions'. I couldn't get the original either. I found that a bit strange, if you're the model, don't you have a right to the original?
She doesn't want big ones to end up on other websites, I have no idea why, if you credit her, what's wrong with that? I'm not going to use it, it isn't the greatest picture. But if she ever does a photoshoot with me, what should I say?

 

[khanjar]

The issue is a complex one and that from an amateur photographers point of view, (though I am professionally qualified to be professional, but I don't need to earn a living from my photography), and why I keep away from people photography aside from the dance stuff I have done, where I have asked before hand and given complete rights to the original images to be used by those photographed and the ones I had corrected or modified as i do photography sometimes as service to others.

But one thing those who are aware of the possibility of being photographed should clue themselves up with, is 'model release terms and conditions' as any bona fide photographer should be aware accept and honour them, as they also protect the photographer if they adhere to the conditions. As let's face it, as a dancer being photographed you are indeed a model whether paid or not.

One thing I do understand is photographing people can be fraught with problems as many of the public do not understand the law and with that many photographers don't either.

But here is a conversation that ran on thelawforumUK.co.uk;

Signed away any rights of images? | The Law Forum

But I know a 'people photographer', I shall ask her for the lowdown on this difficult subject and report back.

But of grotty images of oneself, facebook has loads of them of myself uploaded by others, I have decided to let them be( even though I don't like them), because they are someone else's memories that they felt they wanted to share with the world, am I so vain to deny them that.


Edited to add;

I think what it boils down to is if you agree to your photograph being taken then the law applies, if you say no to photographers, then they legally cannot take your photograph and use it as they wish, but if you agree to your photograph being taken, then you have the right to negotiate what you want from it, as payment can take many forms, but as payment has been made you have authorised the image and so the photographer unless he has agreed before hand not to, has the right to do with his images what they like.

As to a dancer performing within a dance troupe or at a dance event, perhaps it is wise to question your dance school's policy of imagery taken, who owns what and what right you have to any imagery taken of you.

I got pulled once at an event, a dancer objected to me taking a photograph and demanded to know my credentials, as a result I did not photograph her but her classmates all got copies of the images I had taken with complete rights, so it can swing in other ways, so it is best with photographers around to be aware and question your rights as we are sadly descending into an abyss of legalise in this world, an abyss that can upset a lot of people.

 

[Mosaic]

Had an issue myself recently, not sure how this works! A photographer took my picture, photoshopped it and put it on her site. I asked her if I could have the picture which was fine, but I only got a small version as she 'doesn't give out bigger versions'. I couldn't get the original either. I found that a bit strange, if you're the model, don't you have a right to the original?
She doesn't want big ones to end up on other websites, I have no idea why, if you credit her, what's wrong with that? I'm not going to use it, it isn't the greatest picture. But if she ever does a photoshoot with me, what should I say?

Photographers don't give photos away generally, you have to buy a larger copy, then you can do what you want with it. They do use photos of clients in their portfolios and on their websites, usually small low resolution photos so they are of no use to someone who takes a copy, or they watermark the photos.

I am pretty sure photos taken by a professional photographer with the subject's knowledge are their professional property but the subject (person) has the right to purchase copies or purchase the copyright (expensive) which means a photographer then doesn't have the right to use those photos without the copyright owner's permission.

So unless you have an agreement - paid or otherwise prior to a photoshoot, the photographer can have photos she/he takes up on their website and can put restrictions on their use. Buy the rights or buy a copy and they are yours. But if you just buy copies they still can use your photos. They don't use your photos forever as they have new clients all the time that they want to showcase.
~Mosaic

 

[Amulya]

Photographers don't give photos away generally, you have to buy a larger copy, then you can do what you want with it. They do use photos of clients in their portfolios and on their websites, usually small low resolution photos so they are of no use to someone who takes a copy, or they watermark the photos.

I am pretty sure photos taken by a professional photographer with the subject's knowledge are their professional property but the subject (person) has the right to purchase copies or purchase the copyright (expensive) which means a photographer then doesn't have the right to use those photos without the copyright owner's permission.

So unless you have an agreement - paid or otherwise prior to a photoshoot, the photographer can have photos she/he takes up on their website and can put restrictions on their use. Buy the rights or buy a copy and they are yours. But if you just buy copies they still can use your photos. They don't use your photos forever as they have new clients all the time that they want to showcase.
~Mosaic

I don't mind it being used, I just wanted a bigger copy, but as Khajar says the person in the picture is the model and should have some say into it. I think a free copy would be fine as return to the person in it.
But I will negociate things better next time, I didn't know there was a photographer.

 

[Mosaic]

I don't mind it being used, I just wanted a bigger copy, but as Khajar says the person in the picture is the model and should have some say into it. I think a free copy would be fine as return to the person in it.
But I will negociate things better next time, I didn't know there was a photographer.

Ask her how much a larger print would cost, shouldn't be much above $10 for something around 6 x 4" or if she/he was using you as a model at their request without payment then yes it is only fair they give you a bigger copy of a photo & I'd ask outright for one.
~Mosaic

 

[Shanazel]

The pictures I had taken recently were done for an ad campaign by the local medical center for their weight loss program. I got a CD of all the photos in return. No way could I have gotten that level of professional photographs otherwise.

 

[dark]

I am a member, but do not usually post however I was asked to come over here as I'm a portrait and a live event photographer. I am in the UK - so take that into account as laws are different all over - and even UK law is kinda blurry on it and really it comes down to whether you are willing to pursue in court.

First, forget model release forms. These aren't really much use in a public event setting and are mainly for private photography sessions.

Models/subjects have no 'rights' concerning an image taken unless it's been pre discussed and you have entered a contract with the photographer. You don't have the 'right' to purchase said image or it's copyright unless the photographer wants to sell it.

Photographs taken on or in public areas are allowed as long as they are not to be used for spying or sexual gratification - that would be a different thing altogether.

Photographers in private venues have to follow the venues rules. So if you are performing, my advise is to speak to the venue management and either ask them to agree to a non camera rule for your event, or restricted use. Plenty of venues will ask professional cameras to be checked in and only allow camera phones or lower quality cameras or none at all apart from the official photographer and terms can be negociated with those photographers in advance.

No photographer has to offer compensation or images in return for taking an image in a public space, but most pros will and also will check first - it's common courtesy. In my experience it's the non pro and amateur phototogs that people tend to have problems with, after all it's the pros reputation at stake.

Please remember these are only guides and photography does depend on the venue, photographer and the subject.

Hope this helps.
.dark.

 

[LadyLoba]

I understand how you feel, Miss Vega. I also have a tendency to take bad pictures. I'm not putting myself down...pictures of me just tend to come out blurry, distorted, or just plain odd and not even look like me....the only way people normally even realize it's of me is if they recognize my outfit or if my hair came out ok. I get a lot of "who's that?" from people.

I noticed you do have a lot of good photos though. Would it be possible to select a good one that you already have and have it included on the site someplace in a list of performers? That way people will know you performed, but you won't have to have a bunch of pics that didnt turn out.

I did that with a press release recently. I sent in a copy of my one good picture that I have of me...so that I wouldnt have to have someone at the paper take it...then make them feel bad when it came out looking like I had no eyes or some oddball thing that always happens with my pics