Mayya: Lebanese dance troupe

Ariadne

Well-known member
Oh, this isn't a vehement flapdoodle. If we can't have a spirited discussion about what we see among ourselves, what's the point of a forum?

I adore vehement flapdoodles, which are far more civil and interesting than pitched battles with opinionated ranting. We just have them so rarely anymore and I was surprised to have touched one off.
It is nice to see an actual discussion again.
 

hippyhips

Member
You misunderstood me. We weren't emulating anything we'd seen. We made it up ourselves. This kind of arm show is not something that is unique to one culture, however identified it may be with a particular culture.

The dance was posted under this topic because the dancers are from Lebanon, a Middle E

I understood they were from the Middle East, don’t know if that was lost in context. We just don’t Kids judge kids in the same way as we do adults, because we expect more understanding and civility, from adults. But kids are just kids, regardless of what artistic expression they take.

basically tourbeau explained most of my thoughts better than I
 

Tourbeau

Active member
I watched the introduction twice and never once did they say they were going to dance in their native style, nor that they were going to belly dance. They just said that they formed as a dance troupe so that they could feel safe dancing in their country where it is frowned upon.

It's a bit disingenuous for them to say you cannot have a career as a dancer in Lebanon. For one thing, it's not very easy to make a career out of being a dancer anywhere. There are always more dancers than full-time jobs, and between appearance requirements and the wear and tear professional dancing wreaks on the body, even if you do secure a job, you probably won't get a lifetime out of it.

Anecdotally from surfing YouTube, I will concede I get the impression that when Lebanese wedding/party planners hire performers, they gravitate toward dabke troupes of male dancers and musicians, but I don't know how big a career field this is. I suspect it is mostly part-timers and hobbyists, like the BD party-gig economy here.

On the other hand, Caracalla is a large, prestigious dance group akin to the Reda Troupe in Egypt.


Lebanese singers sometimes hire dancers for videos and shows just like singers do here, and a quick search for dance schools in Beirut returns multiple businesses ranging from ballet academies to hip-hop and Latin-dance schools to dabke classes to a Fred Astaire ballroom-dance franchise, so I suspect the prospects for being a woman dancer in Lebanon probably aren't much worse there than being a woman dancer anywhere else, after you normalize for the fact that it isn't great to be a woman [any career] in Lebanon. Also, Amani. And I'm not even going to entertain the nonsense that it's somehow easier for Alexandre Paulikevitch and Moe Khansa to be out/queer male belly dancers in Lebanon than it is for a woman in the Mayyas.

Are we saying that a woman from Lebanon should only dance the debkeh in or outside of Lebanon?

No, I'm saying that large troupes of dancers emphasizing their Lebanese-ness generally tend to be dabka dancers, and if you say "Lebanese woman" and "dance" in verbal proximity, in the absence of better knowledge, many people will jump to the conclusion that since Lebanon is in the Middle East, you must be talking about belly dancing. If I had come here out of a clear blue sky a week ago and posted, "I saw this video of a group of women from Lebanon dancing to 'Inta omri,'" nobody here would have pictured stylized Thai fon lep/belly dance fusion. I find it very puzzling that Nadim clarified his choreography was a mixture of styles on Arabs Got Talent, the place they needed the explanation least, and not anywhere else.

I think that’s an awfully harsh view of someone in “Bumpkinland’. Perhaps someone in middle America might think that, but it’s not like they haven’t seen dance troupes male or female on these shows before. If anything the Mayyas introduction might make them have sympathy towards them, and thereby educate themselves on the matter.

Have you been to Bumpkinland lately? Between the deterioration of civility in American politics and social media magnifying the worst people's worst impulses, intellectual curiosity and intercultural goodwill are not priorities for many Americans.

On the other hand it’s good for US audiences to see some international talent.

I agree and I wish people were not so disinterested in other cultures, but there are factions in American society actively shaming people for having an open heart and mind about the rest of the world. The level of anti-intellectualism in some circles has become horrifying--and thanks to COVID, many have died from their "right" to be a blockhead.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Okay. Moderator hat on. Discussion about dance, however heated, is acceptable, but if this thread deteriorates into political jousting, accusations, and name calling, I will close it. No matter who is accusing whom of what; this is not the place to do it.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Okay. Moderator hat on. Discussion about dance, however heated, is acceptable, but if this thread deteriorates into political jousting, accusations, and name calling, I will close it. No matter who is accusing whom of what; this is not the place to do it.
Thank you. I was completely with a certain posting right up to the VERY last paragraph - no, make that the very last SENTENCE. I don't want to hear about anyone's "true belief", so I won't state mine - but I am BEYOND irritated...
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Definitely NOT belly dance, but along the lines of arm dance. Captions call it "tutting." Anyone heard the term before? Tutting Some of the video is better than others. I skipped around.
 

Tourbeau

Active member
Tutting is a form of breaking/hip-hop dance that was inspired by Ancient Egyptian art. (The name is a reference to King Tut.) It is stylized arm movements to music that involve a lot of right-angle positioning. There is a also a substyle that focuses on the hands called Finger Tutting.


Tutting is often grouped with Waacking (which evolved out of the West Coast style called punking, and is what you'll probably be picturing if you're old enough to picture something when I say "Jody Watley" or "Shalamar on 'Soul Train'") and Vogueing (the East Coast style people know from Madonna), in that they are all arm-driven, pose-heavy dancing.

I'm not sure all of those clips in the link you posted are technically Tutting, though. Some of them just seem like synchronized popping and locking--creative and interesting, but lacking the distinctive angularity and flow of Tutting.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Vogueing? Waacking? Goodness, do I feel archaic. Tut-tutting still meant "naughty, naughty" to me. ;) Explanation much appreciated.
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
I watched the introduction twice and never once did they say they were going to dance in their native style, nor that they were going to belly dance. They just said that they formed as a dance troupe so that they could feel safe dancing in their country where it is frowned upon.
Are we saying that a woman from Lebanon should only dance the debkeh in or outside of Lebanon? That would be awfully boring if you ask me.
I think that’s an awfully harsh view of someone in “Bumpkinland’. Perhaps someone in middle America might think that, but it’s not like they haven’t seen dance troupes male or female on these shows before. If anything the Mayyas introduction might make them have sympathy towards them, and thereby educate themselves on the matter.

THIS.
 
Top