I needed to do this

indrayu

New member
MizzNaa, thank you for your posts. My heart goes out to you in your circumstances.

You are probably not alone in your perspective on your country; the difficulty is in finding like-minded people in a climate of repression.They may well be in the most unlikely places. Without knowing exactly how things operate in Egypt, it is hard to suggest how you might connect with people who give you the social support you need. When I was a student decades ago, student political and activist groups were very energetic and diverse. I never subscribed to any particular set of views, but the fellowship of other critical minds (and fun parties) helped me feel at home with myself. Then I started meeting people of compatible temperament all over the place.

And about Germany: one of my aunts, and several close friends of my family who I call "Uncle" and Auntie" are from Germany. They're lovely! And more open-minded and understanding than some of their Australian-born children. I have had the good fortune to have travelled to some places off the main tourist beat; many of the other travellers who stand out in my memory as being particularly intertested in, and non-judgemental about, the culture they are travelling through, have been German.

Every country has its problems. I hope you find your own spiritual home (in the broadest sense of the term: I'm not a follower of organised religion myself) but in the meantime there's many here who care and support you.

So best wishes and virtual hugs!
 

befree

New member
MizNaaa, thank you for your post. I appreciate your perspective. I'm sorry that things seem so dark right now, and I hope the situation in your home country improves.
 

Nejmeh

New member
Dear mizznaaa, respect for how totally calm, rational en respectfull you`ve put this into words! I truelly believe that what you`ve voiced is a mayor part of what the arab(not only egypt) educated youth today feels.
I can`t even imagine how small and helpless you must feel being there, I am of palestinian decent and I already feel that desperation here, so a big hug for that one! Just know you are not that small! With your o.p you`ve shared a part of your country, a story that needs to be told! As long as we keep telling the injustices and truth, they will not have there way! Soemoed my dear, even though I know how difficult that can be...
For germany, I think you`ll like it! The art schools are indeed great and there is a pretty relaxed culture in most parts. Do realize that there is some social control amongst the immigrants themselves, but if you don`t like that its pretty easy to get rid off. I don`t know where you would settle but I live in the Netherlands about 20 minutes from the german border, you are always welcome to come by!
 

Morocco

New member
Total agreement with you ... & a word to the wise Oriental dancer

I can't really say this is in any way for the best of Egypt. The whole thing revolves around the MB grabbing power. They want to write the constitution the way they see fit, regardless of what other factions and people think. They were about to lose their beloved constitutional assembly so the president comes out and says, "Weeelll, kids, we'll do what we want, you can't say anything about it...all in the name of the revolution".

Well mr. President, sir, you've raped the revolution. They want to take over the country and turn us into the so-called oh so Islamic rule to cover up for their BLATANT power grab. I guarantee you, soon, they'll say democracy is against their god and that's that.

I'm so depressed right now, it's gotten to the point where it's affecting everything I do, school work, my own plan to get in shape...everything. We are, and excuse my french, fucked royally.

I was SO proud of Egypt & the Egyptian people in Medan Tahrir &, after so many, many years my Egyptian friends were not afraid to talk politics with me when I was there last June/July (I've been going to Egypt, mostly 2x a year, since 1964 - which was probably before you were born...:D). Most thought Morsi was regel tayyib & things would get better - NOW they see that the MB is the MB is the MB. SO sad. It IS a rape of the Revolution.

FWIW, there are also the far right so-called "Christians" & the ultra Orthodox so-called "Jews", who are just as sexist, hypocritical, etc. as the wahabis/ MB/ Taliban, et alia...

I more than applaud your baba - especially in light of the total patriarchy there and the "privileges" he could "enjoy" by dint of having been born male - he is a real gift to the world & I applaud & support the woman you are. I heard the "click" re misogyny/sexism 20 years before Betty Friedan woke up ...

I hope I can meet you the next time I'm in Cairo (prob. June) ...

To the "foreign" Raqs Sharqi dancers and friends of its beauty, music, etc.: NEVER let the stupid insanity of the haters in ANY country or culture, "Over Here" or "Over There" stop you from loving/ enjoying/ sharing these Arts or befriending the real people. Would you let the buffoonery of Berlusconi stop you from enjoying or singing opera???

What we need to do is support those who think for themselves, outside the "box" and all sincere Artists/ Arts ... I certainly do NOT intend to stop dancing, teaching, sharing ...

Morocco
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I certainly do NOT intend to stop dancing, teaching, sharing ...

You couldn't if you tried. People would hunt you down and ply you with baklava until you started right back up.

No retirement for you- ever. :D
 

Farasha Hanem

New member
O.O BAKLAVAH???? WHERE?? >.>;; WHERE??? <.<;;; @___@

Aunt Rocky, I know you don't know me, but I have adored you for years, ever since I first saw your interview on the documentary, "American Bellydancer." Thank you for everything you do to debunk the myth and "wishtory" that continues to plague bellydance. And I second Shanazel! xD
 

Morocco

New member
You couldn't if you tried. People would hunt you down and ply you with baklava until you started right back up.

No retirement for you- ever. :D

Thank you, but PLEEEZ *no* baklava or I'd be too buzzed out on the sugar to move!!!:dance:
 

MizzNaaa

New member
Oooh Baklava, yummeh!

@Morocco, thank you so much for your post. It means the world to me, and I would love to meet you as well :)
 

Morocco

New member
Fishawi??? Naguib Mafouz???

Oooh Baklava, yummeh!

@Morocco, thank you so much for your post. It means the world to me, and I would love to meet you as well :)

God willing, I'll be there in late June ... do you have my direct e-mail??? <morocco@casbahdance.org> - send me yours there & I'll be in touch not so publicly ...;)
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
FWIW, there are also the far right so-called "Christians" & the ultra Orthodox so-called "Jews", who are just as sexist, hypocritical, etc. as the wahabis/ MB/ Taliban, et alia...

I couldn't tell you about Jews, although I'm sure you're right. There's something about monotheists, their thrice accursed BOOKS, and their hateful God. However, most of the Jews of my acquaintance are terrified of the Bible-Thumping Theocrats here in the US, they see vast similarities between the Bible rhetoric and what was going on in Germany in the 1930s. I see all these fanatics as "claws of the hand of Mordor", and have been watching them since I was old enough to perceive them as the evil they are. And they're growing in power.

According to my Astrological friends, today (12/21/12) is the actual day of the "Dawning of the age of Aquarius" that has been spoken (and sung!) about for decades. Its many people's hope that this kind of fanaticism will be on the wane after today. I sure hope so.
 

Morocco

New member
NO argument from me!

I couldn't tell you about Jews, although I'm sure you're right. There's something about monotheists, their thrice accursed BOOKS, and their hateful God. However, most of the Jews of my acquaintance are terrified of the Bible-Thumping Theocrats here in the US, they see vast similarities between the Bible rhetoric and what was going on in Germany in the 1930s. I see all these fanatics as "claws of the hand of Mordor", and have been watching them since I was old enough to perceive them as the evil they are. And they're growing in power.

According to my Astrological friends, today (12/21/12) is the actual day of the "Dawning of the age of Aquarius" that has been spoken (and sung!) about for decades. Its many people's hope that this kind of fanaticism will be on the wane after today. I sure hope so.

You are totally correct. Most *real* Christians & Muslims are also terrified of the wacko hate-filled fringe element using the cover of their religions to "justify" their own power-tripping.

I'm with you in hoping for a decrease in fanaticism, but with powerful pax like the NRA & far right wingers spreading all that money around to the elected here & all the power-buying by Saudis & Iranis "there", sadly I have to doubt it ...

WE do what we can to combat it by sharing love & knowledge, one day at a time ...

HAPPY HOLIDAYS/ KOLU SANA W'INTU TAYIBBIN

Aunt Rocky
 

Erik

New member
Argument from me

There's something about monotheists, their thrice accursed BOOKS, and their hateful God.

Zobra, I can agree with you on some issues, but this is stereotyping. At various times in the past it was considered perfectly ethical to marry one's own sibling, murder one's own children, eat human flesh, or sacrifice a human life so that the sun would keep coming up every day. Monotheism is what put a stop to these practices, not ethics.

Just last night there was a dedicated effort to prove that Adolf Hitler was a Christian because of a photograph of him with a Christmas tree in the background. I was there to debunk it, of course, but that certainly won't be the end to the nonsense. No surprise Hitler was chosen for this example of blatant propaganda. John Brown and Vlad the Impaler (although they were Christians) don't have the same impact on today's society as Adolf does.

Gee, I used to think this site was about dance. :confused:
 

Shanazel

Moderator
There's something about monotheists, their thrice accursed BOOKS, and their hateful God.

Whoa, babies are flying out with the bath water. Let's celebrate the dawning of the Age of Aquarius by finding common ground and standing together against the fanatics who threaten us all.

Dance is about life, Erik. The only one who dances without connection to culture and emotion is the little lady in the pink tutu who springs up to pirouette every time a child's jewelry box is opened... and even one of those dancers fell in love with a tin soldier, once upon a time. ;)
 

Erik

New member
Erik? What happened to kiddo? :D

Sorry. The OP needed to do what she did, and I needed to do what I did. No hatred was behind it. Believe it or not, I would just as quickly defend the rights of atheists against the Bible-thumpers, and I have. I don't hold with extremism in any form, and I would very much like to believe that we can come together and respect each other's differences. As a student of history I know that it is possible.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Monotheism is what put a stop to these practices, not ethics.

Oh please.

Monotheists would have you believe they invented everything, are the cause of everything, and the end all of everything. Like the claim they invented hospitals, when I've stood in the ruins of a 2,500 year old hospital built by Pagans.

Monotheism is solely responsible for a Dark Age that lasted 1,000 years (and the deaths of MILLIONS) - and monotheists of many different stripes are trying to drag us into yet another one. I'll take my "ethics", thank you very much. Ethics are universal, and are quite separate from "Morals" - which are not. Laws/Morals/Ethics attempt to do the same thing, but seldom intersect. The only one worth a damn is Ethics.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
As a student of history I know that it is possible.
With all respect: If you're a "student of history", look up "The Christianization of Europe" as but one example. It makes me sick to my stomach. Another wonderful person: Theodosius, "The Great" - an excellent example of a "live and let live" ruler - NOT.
 

Erik

New member
Thank you, Zorba, but I fancy that I already know enough about the reign of Theodosius, and also the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Burning Time, the Protestant Reformation, Colonialism, Imperialism, and the Holocaust to name a few.

What I had in mind was something more like this, the Islamic kingdom in Southern Spain during the Middle Ages. It's gone now. It was wiped out a long time ago, but it existed once as an example of tolerance and coexistence.

https://sites.google.com/site/spainmoorish/essays

And now, time to exit stage left. ;)
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Thank you, Zorba, but I fancy that I already know enough about the reign of Theodosius, and also the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Burning Time, the Protestant Reformation, Colonialism, Imperialism, and the Holocaust to name a few.

And the missionary movement.

But Erik - you confuse the #^%$&^ out of me...

In one breath, you tell me how monotheism trumps ethics; then in the next, you admit knowledge of monotheism's atrocities.

Which is it?

I'm honestly confused here... :confused::confused:
 

Erik

New member
And the missionary movement.

But Erik - you confuse the #^%$&^ out of me...

In one breath, you tell me how monotheism trumps ethics; then in the next, you admit knowledge of monotheism's atrocities.

Which is it?

I'm honestly confused here... :confused::confused:

Both. I defiantly refuse to be a follower of two-factored logic. I also get my Irish up (and I'm not even Irish) when someone bashes paganism. Pagan cruelty is well-publicized, but there are also numerous examples of pagan kindness, and in ancient times pagans even achieved marvels which we arrogant moderns cannot begin to duplicate. Not to dismiss ethics, but in my life experience I don't believe ethics are enough.

I'm also a dinosaur. I don't belong anymore, kind of like David Janssen's character in "Birds of Prey." Anyone who never saw it can consult this video for further orientation.Birds of Prey - YouTube

After I and those like me are gone, there won't be any more, and so you won't be bothered anymore by morals, morality, conscience, or archaic notions of religion. And I hope you like it, because you will be stuck with it.
 
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