Generally, how long before I should do Tribal Fusion?

Darshiva

Moderator
Now THIS is extremely interesting!!!

That is fantastic that you are able to look at a dancer and tell automatically what side they lean to.

If you don't mind me asking. What is it about what he did in the link that made you come to that conclusion?
I'm trying to see the ''oriental side'' in tribal fusion performance, but can't really link the two together visually.

Thank you for any help on this!
I'm relocating interstate in like hours so I really can't even begin to respond to this the way that I want to, but I will try.

My answer (in short) is his posture, motion, and emotional response to the music. Which isn't to say that tribal doesn't have these things, just that they are different. And how is not an easy answer, but something that is learned from watching ALL THE DANCING! :)

I saw this video clip on another forum and am deeply moved by it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnc4DapuE_4

I positively love the way he dances. Can someone tell me what style it is he is doing? Is this Baladi/Egyptian too or no? He looks very different compared to other Egyptian male dancers. I must learn his sensual style.
He's doing what I would call modern oriental. Others might just call it Egyptian style. Tito is highly regarded - you have good taste. :)
 
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Roshanna

New member
Hmmm... interesting. What makes Baladi more challenging than the other aspects of bd? To me... it would seem like all of the inane prop-work such as sword-balancing tricks would actually take much more skill and time in mastering than the dancing. I know in my situation, it kills me having to learn veilwork and play finger cymbals rather than just concentrating on the hip-work, such as in Baladi.

Looks like TF is looking less and less like what I need, and Baladi is looking more and more like it!:D

I must say it does always sadden me to see classes moving on to learning veil and sword and Isis Wings and fan veils in Beyond Beginners when they still barely know what they're doing with their muscles, but I guess teachers have to do what they need to make a crust!
OK, so... Isis wings are totally American, and you don't need them at all for Egyptian style (though it's not unheard of for Egyptians to use a cape or similar to make a grand entrance, then ditch it). Sword dancing is also not really a thing in Egypt, but a lot of mainly Egyptian-style pro dancers in the West do learn it because Western audiences love it and clients request it. Veil is used much less extensively in Egyptian style, but it *is* used, usually just briefly to make an entrance, so it's worth becoming at least proficient with one - learning veil skills can also do a lot to improve your general upper body and arm work.

Finger cymbals are not a prop, they are a musical instrument. They are super traditional, though they are played less frequently by Egyptian dancers these days. If you look at old movie clips of Egyptian dancers, they are almost always playing cymbals. When Egyptian dancers *do* play them nowadays, it's often for the folkloric/baladi parts of their show. A lot of teachers will include them in beginners classes because it's much easier to play them from the start and develop the muscle memory than to try to add them in later. I do know some very good dancers who can't play them, but I also think they are really worth learning, especially if you are at all musical.

Cane/stick dancing is also super traditional, and a cane is sometimes used for baladi style.

Fan veils are a very recently added prop that have nothing to do with Egyptian dance, and IMO are mostly a gimmick. Same goes for veil poi, etc. Fine to learn if you're into that sort of thing, but you can be a pro-level Egyptian style dancer without ever touching the things.
 

Roshanna

New member
I saw this video clip on another forum and am deeply moved by it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnc4DapuE_4

I positively love the way he dances. Can someone tell me what style it is he is doing? Is this Baladi/Egyptian too or no? He looks very different compared to other Egyptian male dancers. I must learn his sensual style.
Tito is just fabulous. He's one of my favourite current Egyptian dancers. I love his style, and I love how much he always looks like he's enjoying himself :)
 

Daimona

Moderator
Hmmm... interesting. What makes Baladi more challenging than the other aspects of bd?
Doing a proper baladi is challenging because you really have to be IN the music, or to use the words of Aziza: Be the music. The moves and combinations that are usually used in a baladi aren't complicated, but to learn and understand how to express the music takes time. You simply can't rush it, because you'll loose the important nuances that makes it a baladi. And to be the music, you have to listen a lot to baladi music as well as seeing other people doing it (preferably those doing it well).



Okay... sorry for asking this again, but can you explain what the word ''juicy'' means when it is used in belly dance? And how exactly does someone work on bringing out that juicy muscularity look in their dancing? I was told that it means the opposite of ''isolated'' movement but have no clue what that would look like.
One move can be executed in many ways, depending on the dancers intent (and sometimes ability) and focus. I like to think of juiciness as a muscular resistance to the move combined with the loving feeling of doing that particular move. But I'm sure there are other explanations of it as well.
 

Farasha Hanem

New member
You're baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!!

*GLOMPS Achilles!!!* I'm so glad you're back, I thought we'd lost you!!! :( I'm sorry you had car and other problems, but I'm so GLAD to see you back! It always makes me sad when our forum loses a dancer who likes/is into Tribal Fusion because most of us here are more into Egyptian/traditional/folkloric style of bellydance. I'm glad that this isn't the case, and that you're back! :D
 

Kashmir

New member
So about two years learning the basics? May I ask if what you mean by basics, do you mean just learning how to do the basic hip circle or Omi well enough to music?

Or do you include layering, combinations, and more traveling stuff?

Off the top of my head in the Beginners 1 class we have learned chest/hip circle, hip lift/drop, chest lift/drop, snake arms, choo choo shimmy, twist shimmy, basic egyptian, grapevine upper/lower undulations, hip drop w/kick. Latest class we learned vertical figure 8.

I won't be seeing any layering or anything more complex until Beginners 2 class, I think.
For me basics would be some moves (as you listed - but not all of them) - but more important is being taught belly dance is not a bunch of moves. So, the ability to fit simple combinations into music. To feel how you alter the moves with different rhythms and times of music (names are not that important bit that your body knows dom tek dome tek). Making up your own combinations. Learning other people's. Then modifying them. Full blown improvisation for short (guided) stretches. A feel for Arabic music - again names are not important but a feel for it. Transitions.

Obviously basic layering is needed. A range of different shimmies including at least one 3/4 and one 4/4 - able to be layered with walking. Travelling steps while not traditional are very useful and not many performances these days stay in one spot.

A few hours (at least) with the (real) history of the dance including at least one folk style. Veil and zills.

There is the bare bones for beginner study.
 
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Kashmir

New member
Also based off of what my friend, who is a tribal dancer, has told me-- I was under the impression that Egyptian was all about ballet tricks, sword balancing, cane and veil usage whereas Tribal fusion (I was told) was more focused on the isolations themselves (what I think of when i think of ''bellydancing'').
I'm sure by now there are lots of replies - but I'm answering before I read to the end (bad forum member)

Basically your friend does not know what she is talking about. First, there are many Egyptian styles. One of these does use some modified ballet travelling steps. But you can bet there are also lots of hips! (and why is a pirouette, double hip drop, pirouette, double hip double, chasse a "trick" while popping and locking like you have some neurological problem not?)

Second, sword and veil are American - not Egyptian. It is pure (and I suspect deliberate) ignorance to bundle all non-TF into one lump.

Isolations are the way belly dance expresses the music. Isolations are not belly dance (and they are used in many other dance forms).
 
Hmmm... interesting. What makes Baladi more challenging than the other aspects of bd? To me... it would seem like all of the inane prop-work such as sword-balancing tricks would actually take much more skill and time in mastering than the dancing. I know in my situation, it kills me having to learn veilwork and play finger cymbals rather than just concentrating on the hip-work, such as in Baladi.
Actually if you have the right sword, balancing is not that difficult - and there are several cheats you can employ to reduce the difficulty - which I've seen several Tribal dancers use, by the way, so they are not immune to "inane sword work"! In fact where I come from, sword and finger cymbals are quite heavily used in Tribal.

Baladi is a solo improvisational dance and each section of the music has different demands and requires a different response - so that's the factual aspect. Then there is the technical aspect - being able to do those beautiful "juicy" moves requires excellent, subtle muscle control. Finally and most importantly, there's the emotion and musicality.
 
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