Definition of Belly Dance

[Kharmine]

They distinguish them from stage dance - ie raqs sharqi. And yes, they are not raqs sharqi. However, they are the source dance of the bulk of raqs sharqi. And in Egypt, at least, a "belly dancer" will incorporate them in her show - not just in the folk tableau but modified into her Orientale as well.

I believe part of the "not belly dance" tag is because "belly dance" (ie the dance performed in front of men by half-dressed sluts (as one Egyptian woman once described it)) is not something most MEers want to be associated with. What they do in the privacy of their own homes however is "different". But when you actually look at it isn't. The movement vocab overlaps and the feel and interpretation is the same.

Respectfully, I think you're missing the point of the term "raks sharki." It translates from Arabic as 'dance of the East" or "dance of the Orient," and was coined specifically to identify that fusion of North African dance moves with Western staging/costume/ musical influence.

If Egyptians and others picked up the term "belly dance," they got it from Westerners. That process of accepting a foreign slang term and using it dismissively has nothing to do with the fact that the much older folk dances are a distinct form, part of the roots of raks sharki, but not considered the same as Oriental dance.

Even if you could show where the moves of the folk dances were incorporated in the original form of Oriental dance called raks sharki, to say they could be categorized together would be like lumping modern dance as ballet because modern dance incorporates some ballet moves.

 

[Kashmir]

Respectfully, I think you're missing the point of the term "raks sharki." It translates from Arabic as 'dance of the East" or "dance of the Orient," and was coined specifically to identify that fusion of North African dance moves with Western staging/costume/ musical influence.

If Egyptians and others picked up the term "belly dance," they got it from Westerners. That process of accepting a foreign slang term and using it dismissively has nothing to do with the fact that the much older folk dances are a distinct form, part of the roots of raks sharki, but not considered the same as Oriental dance.

Even if you could show where the moves of the folk dances were incorporated in the original form of Oriental dance called raks sharki, to say they could be categorized together would be like lumping modern dance as ballet because modern dance incorporates some ballet moves.

And I totally agree. Sa`iidi, beledi, etc etc are not danse Orientale/oriental dance/raqs sharqi. But far as I'm concerned "belly dance" is more than this too. Not more as in Tribal or Goth or Bellynesian - but more as in any dance form which has the same source, movement vocab and approach.

Although ME civilians may put up barriers between their own dance and those of professionals it isn't the case with dance professionals. I've been to many belly dance workshops with Egyptian teachers. Taking out the pure technique bits (which often isn't that much ) - of the dance that was left less, than 30% would be "Orientale". Sa`iidi in a belly dance workshop is very common (may be 20%) - along with other folk forms. Why? Because it is part of the dance. Part of "belly dance"