Dancers You Don't Like

Shems

New member
snip - dancing cane with a bare tummy, exhausting the audience (someone mentioned over-dancing to the music; this is the result), and (gonna get things thrown at me for this one) -- trying to turn belly dance into dance theatre -- belly dance should not have a "plot" or a "statement." snip
This cracked me up. I've done all of the above three on multiple occasions, though I do make a conscious effort not to over-dance. :lol:
 

Safran

New member
If I don't have a problem per say, I just don't like a dancer's style, well, just saying a dancer isn't to my taste isn't particularly nice or particularly useful, so why put it out there? Who knows a year from now I might be working with that dancer I didn't care for. And she might be a real sweetheart and I'll feel like a jerk because I had to tell the world I didn't like her dancing, when I could've just kept it to myself.
I'd like to add to Shems' thought - who knows a year from now I might have learned more to understand and appreciate the specific dancer's style. Because, like it was said before, truth is subjective - one's opinion is based on both, knowing and not knowing. And then I realise I really like this dancer, but me listing her in the thread of dancers I do not like will hang up in the internet forever...
 

Shanazel

Super Moderator
Momism? Why do you say this is another momism?

Is it true? Nobody owns the absolute true.
Is it kind? The answer of that question is relative
Is it necessary? Yes it it, this forum dont have to be so restrained, so censored to the thoughts of its members.

Momism: something a mom says; generally something that leaves her children rolling their eyes but they find themselves repeating to their own children some day.

Censored? Restrained? US?? :lol::lol::lol: Just stick around. Glad to have you with us, CharlieL.

Just for the record, I hurt a dancer's feelings a couple of years ago by thoughtlessly posting a picture of her in a costume that elicited unfavorable comment. She sent me a private message rebuking me- something I richly deserved. I looked up her phone number (thank goodness she was listed) and immediately called her to make a heartfelt apology. We are friends now, but I hope never, never to make someone feel like that again, however inadvertently. She may have forgotten it, but I never will.
 
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LadyLoba

New member
No not "too sexy for this song"...I think that's the "orgasmic" expression some others were talking about. :)

I just hate to see performances who give off a vibe of arrogance.


Yes...Shems and others...that is why when I started the thread I specifically stated "without naming names." I had originally intended the thread to be a way to find out if there were people you were fans of and people you did not care for in belly dance with the same intensity as other art forms.....nothing more.

I know in literature...I will read almost anything written by John Grisham, Tom Perrotta, or Wally Lamb...but cannot make it through a single book by Brett Easton Ellis. So I was wondering if there was that intensity of fandom and non fandom in belly dance too....again, nothing more...and I asked for "no names" to 1) avoid fights on here 2) because I know a lot of dancers visit here....and this was NOT intended to become a "let's bash dancer A" thread and 3) because I wanted replies about belly dance, not ones saying "LadyLoba, you mean thing, how could you start such a horrible thread?" This hasn't happened here yet, but I have seen it happen before...even in instances where the offensive or cruel post was 40 posts down and nothing like the original poster's post.

Over the weeks, the thread morphed into a discussion of certain things about performances people don't like...so I went with that and noted when I saw something I dislike (still without naming names).
 

Darshiva

Moderator
There are a lot of "things" I do not like in the dance: backbends with the crotch to the audience, large hip circles or "the butt wipe" to the audience, costumes that look like they will fall off or gap to show something they shouldn't, skirts peeking out above belts (pet peeve), ignoring the audience, and (my own demon I need to exorcise) "showing your hand" when things go wrong by "telling" the audience you forgot the step or missed a cue, etc.

There are a lot of dances I do not like: dancing drunk, dancing off beat, dancing cane with a bare tummy, exhausting the audience (someone mentioned over-dancing to the music; this is the result), and (gonna get things thrown at me for this one) -- trying to turn belly dance into dance theatre -- belly dance should not have a "plot" or a "statement."
I disagree with all of these things - within context, although they also tend to be my barometer for what I consider bad performance. In my example, the audience is bellydancers and the dancers are experienced dancers taking a light-hearted jab at the worst of bellydance. They do the garish & overdone costumes, the high egos, the show-offy dancing and all to something which is decidedly not bellydance music. And it works because of the storyline, the theatre behind it which says "this is all tongue in cheek, but haven't we all been here at one stage, to some degree?". The audience laughs and we all move on, knowing that all the rules have been broken and fun was had by all as a result.

The point I am making is that the elements of bad dance don't necessarily make the dance bad. The attitude of the dancer is what I find makes or breaks a dancer. For me it's all about personality, and while technique & personality will battle it out on stage for me, if the personality isn't making ME feel good, I tend to either not like the performance or, if this is an ongoing thing, not like the performer.

As far as I go, I like to tell a story with my dance. There needs to be a mood, I need to have a connection to the song so that I am not just dancing to "whatever". Because of this, I may not be your cup of tea when it comes to performance. But I am glad to know that you aren't the type to tell everyone that my brand of juice isn't pleasant.

And I think that that is the point that some people have been trying to make in this thread. It's all well & good to discuss what elements of dance you find tasteful or distasteful, but your tastes DO change over time and you really don't want to have your old opinions hanging around somewhere to offend someone especially if you do decide down the track that you do like someone else's brand of juice after all!



*I really like the juice metaphore, can you tell?
 

LadyLoba

New member
I disagree with the above: I would find it useful to have old opinions around...it would give a good view of my growing and changing as a dancer. For example, suppose I posted on here:

"One thing I cannot stand is when Maya hips are followed by hip lifts"

Two weeks later, I might see a dancer who incorporates this beautifully into a dance. Then I could come back and post...I used to hate that, but I saw this dance on You Tube (or wherever) and it was done so beautifully...I'm getting to really appreciate it now.

Again, this is why I was going for "yes there are dancers I dont care for as well as favorites of mine" type answers and not, "well I really hate DancerA"...because I would hate to name a name, forget I said, sign up for a class....and then remember where I heard the teacher's name before......yikes.

But just having notes of features and details you dislike is great....then if you change...it just goes to show that you're openminded and that you're learning.

On a second note, Ive found the direction this thread has gone particularly useful for a beginner like myself. Most of the people who have posted details they disliked have been performers and teachers...and if there is something that a lot of seasoned dancers find distasteful.....then I will know to avoid doing them.

For example...I noted that a lot of you really don't care for large hip circles with the back to the audience, because it looks like a "butt sweep" or "here's a booty in your face."

I never thought of it that way....and if nobody had noted that, I'm sure I would have done it. I like hip circles with the back to the audience, so I'm sure I would have thought I was looking very dramatic doing a big one....but now that some people have mentioned they don't care for that...I'll make sure not to do it.

At least let's hope....if it's an improvisation....improv plus nerves sometimes has some disaster results when you're new to something :)
 

charlieL

New member
Apparently, you have never seen some of the nastiness this type of thing can turn into. I've seen plenty on other fora; in fact, I've been the subject on other fora and it's not constructuve nor given in a loving way, but just a chance for a lot of other people who are dying for a reason to do some major mudflinging. That is why I like this forum better, because everybody "plays nice."

No, thank you to a nasty forum.

@LadyLoba - you mean when they act like they are too sexy for this song??? :lol:
You only see this nastiness most in belly dance youtube videos; there is a terrific dancer but some of the opinions say that x dancer is better, others say that she is good but not better than Shakira!(it makes me laught, many people put Shakira as the ultimate reference when compared to professional belly dancers) Others say that x dancer is good just because is my compatriot(despite being a mediocre dancer) and so on. But this isnt the goal of this forum, i`ve never seen this kind of discussion on this forum, here all are civilized people, so i dont think we have to come to that extreme but i still think we can express our thoughts openly without crossing the line.
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
WHAHAHAHAHA!! OMG this thread is just too funny now....in a non humorous way. It's gotten so far off topic and some of the commentary could scare away any new dancers to this field who have low self esteem, small backbone or don't understand that this dance form, like any other, can be a hot political cat fight.

Frankly in my opinion this thread should be locked. If those who feel the need to keep debating, take it offline to PM's or created a new topic in the debate forum with an appropriate title reflecting what you are now arguing about.

New dancers to the forum don't need to be reading how HARSH other dancers are towards each other. If I had read this thread just starting off I can tell you right now it would have really put me off. This dance style built up my low self esteem. Had I read this before that happened I be scared to death that people would be as picky as they are here to others to me. I never would have started dancing!

I started dancing because I was told how accepting this dance style is of everyone, no matter the skill level or body shape. This thread proves the opposite! It has done everything to show that what I was told does not exist in some members of this forum population. There is a difference between debating in general what is good to show in a dancer and what is bad, than directly calling out specific dancers and get nasty towards what it is you don't like in them.

p.s. if anyone names me as a dancer they don't like I'm going to track you down, destroy your shiny's and jingles, then abscond into the night!! *insert evil giggle* lol
 
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charlieL

New member
WHAHAHAHAHA!! OMG this thread is just too funny now....in a non humorous way. It's gotten so far off topic and some of the commentary could scare away any new dancers to this field who have low self esteem, small backbone or don't understand that this dance form, like any other, can be a hot political cat fight.

Frankly in my opinion this thread should be locked. If those who feel the need to keep debating, take it offline to PM's or created a new topic in the debate forum with an appropriate title reflecting what you are now arguing about.

New dancers to the forum don't need to be reading how HARSH other dancers are towards each other. If I had read this thread just starting off I can tell you right now it would have really put me off. This dance style built up my low self esteem. Had I read this before that happened I be scared to death that people would be as picky as they are here to others to me. I never would have started dancing!

I started dancing because I was told how accepting this dance style is of everyone, no matter the skill level or body shape. This thread proves the opposite! It has done everything to show that what I was told does not exist in some members of this forum population. There is a difference between debating in general what is good to show in a dancer and what is bad, than directly calling out specific dancers and get nasty towards what it is you don't like in them.

p.s. if anyone names me as a dancer they don't like I'm going to track you down, destroy your shiny's and jingles, then abscond into the night!! *insert evil giggle* lol
See? I think you are exaggerating. So far i`ve never seen any member insulting a dancer or naming, so far i havent nasty comments. Seriously, you are exaggerating.
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
You only see this nastiness most in belly dance youtube videos; there is a terrific dancer but some of the opinions say that x dancer is better, others say that she is good but not better than Shakira!(it makes me laught, many people put Shakira as the ultimate reference when compared to professional belly dancers) Others say that x dancer is good just because is my compatriot(despite being a mediocre dancer) and so on. But this isnt the goal of this forum, i`ve never seen this kind of discussion on this forum, here all are civilized people, so i dont think we have to come to that extreme but i still think we can express our thoughts openly without crossing the line.
Okay, Charlie, let's talk about YOUR dancing! :mad:
 

Darshiva

Moderator
Cheart, I have to agree that this thread has left a bad taste in my mouth from the start. Even if it wasn't intended this way, it has come across as inviting bitchiness and sour grapes. Compounding this theory is that every time someone has said 'hey look, it's just not a good idea to do this, it reflects poorly upon you as a dancer and poorly upon dance in general', it has been shot down in flames as censorship or thin-skinnedness.

The reason I have been less than supportive of this thread is because as a new bellydancer (into my third and fourth years) I was very nasty about some dancers because it was the culture I was in to be bitchy about these things. I very deeply regret the nasty things that I said and wish that I could take them back. Imagine if I'd said them online! What the anti-censorship brigade don't seem to understand is that what you say on the internet is retrievable forever, and that we who are arguing on the side of caution would like to protect these people from themselves.
 

Belly Love

New member
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wow, I see something so blatantly hypocritical in some of the previous comments, but I don't know if I should point it out... all I can do is roll my eyes and shake my head at the ignorance of some people.

I find it disgusting when people spout words of wisdom and the get applauded for it from their "friends" when in fact, they often times do the exact opposite.

I'm going to leave it at this: I think that often times when you like someone, you ignore the rude stuff they do and only notice the nice stuff. And on the other hand, when you don't like someone or you don't know them very well, what really stands out to you is what you don't agree with and tend to ignore the positives.

*By the way, this isn't something that neccesarily has to do with my interactions with others on here.
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
See? I think you are exaggerating. So far i`ve never seen any member insulting a dancer or naming, so far i havent nasty comments. Seriously, you are exaggerating.
Exaggerating what? I'm making a general statement and view point. There is nothing in there that is exaggerated.

See your post http://www.bellydanceforums.net/171918-post93.html. You specially ask about why people don't point of dancers names and then compare this forum to a bellydance leaks. Your post can be viewed as egging on people to name specific dancers and then if they don't then compare them to the world issue of wilkileaks.

I also don't think you or others realize that some of the comments here can be viewed very differently by others. You might not think they are nasty but others can seem them in a entirely different light. It all depends on what you think is nasty or are used to experiencing as nasty.
 
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charlieL

New member
Exaggerating what? I'm making a general statement and view point. There is nothing in there that is exaggerated.

See your post http://www.bellydanceforums.net/171918-post93.html. You specially ask about why people don't point of dancers names and then compare this forum to a bellydance leaks. Your post can be viewed as egging on people to name specific dancers and then if they don't then compare them to the world issue of wilkileaks.

I also don't think you or others realize that some of the comments here can be viewed very differently by others. You might not think they are nasty but others can seem them in a entirely different light. It all depends on what you think is nasty or are used to experiencing as nasty.
Come on! you are taking things seriously, i see many people are very sensitive here.
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
Come on! you are taking things seriously, i see many people are very sensitive here.
Sensitive? Moi? HAHA if you really knew me then you'd know I'm anything but sensitive. I took it seriously because you wrote it as such. I didn't see any indication in any of your writing for it being intended humor or it being sarcasm.

Are you new to forums? When one is being funny etc they will put a :p. LOL, jk, *insert sarcasm*, or something else somewhere in their text to get across the non-verbal of the words so that others know they are not being serious or are trying to be funny. You might have it come across as funny but others reading it don't have the non-verbal cues as in regular speech. Without it, text can take on an entirely different tone depending on who reads it. For me, and others I know, we read all text as being normal/serious views unless the above are in it or the writing is very blatantly obviously humor/sarcastic.

Without it most people will read the text for what it is, as a serious comment. If you start doing what most do to reflect humor or lack of seriousness then issues like this won't arise. Don't feel bad though, this is one of the first and biggest mistakes many new people to forums make until they are either told or they learn through experience.
 
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charlieL

New member
Sensitive? Moi? HAHA if you really knew me then you'd know I'm anything but sensitive. I took it seriously because you wrote it as such. I didn't see any indication in any of your writing for it being intended humor or it being sarcasm.

Are you new to forums? When one is being funny etc they will put a :p. LOL, jk, *insert sarcasm*, or something else somewhere in their text to get across the non-verbal of the words so that others know they are not being serious or are trying to be funny. You might have it come across as funny but others reading it don't have the non-verbal cues as in regular speech. Without it, text can take on an entirely different tone depending on who reads it. For me, and others I know, we read all text as being normal/serious views unless the above are in it or the writing is very blatantly obviously humor/sarcastic.

Without it most people will read the text for what it is, as a serious comment. If you start doing what most do to reflect humor or lack of seriousness then issues like this won't arise. Don't feel bad though, this is one of the first and biggest mistakes many new people to forums make until they are either told or they learn through experience.
As you can see i am member since 2007.So all this fuss is about icon for message?
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
As you can see i am member since 2007.So all this fuss is about icon for message?
You might have joined in 2007 but by your posting tally it shows you don't write that much on this forum. Which means two things 1) either you are not on very frequently or 2) you don't post much. Also if you been here that long just reading then you still should know better by now regarding issues with non-verbal.

Yes if you want to break it down to the base issue the main problem is lack of icons. It is only cooperative and mannerful towards all members of this forum when people put some indication in their writing where you are trying to come across as funny or sarcastic. It saves time and stops possible issues/fights like these in the first place. Unless you purposely want to flame and rill up others by letting them misinterpret your intentions behind the text you write.

I have digressed from the forum topic and so will stop with this track now. Though I am really good at railroading topics :lol:
 
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