Anyone Know About Tummy Tucks?

[DrBermant]

Mega-rep to Chani. :clap: :clap: :clap:


Well yes insofar as a movement will look different on a gym-toned flat tum than something jucier, but to me that is totally missing the point of belly dance. Tell it to Fifi - the heart and soul of belly dance isn't about anatomy.

If someone is unhappy about their body and want surgery then that's fine (although I was expecting something more, er, dramatic in the "before" on that dancer clip to be honest - had a bit of a WTF? moment).

This is a great place to ask other dancers if they've had something done and how it affected their dancing. It might have been an interesting angle hearing from a surgeon and seeing before and afters on a skilled dancer, but now this just feels like peddling to me, especially since I looked at the website. . It feels like someone exploiting the belly dancer angle to get his name out there some more. It's all making me queasy now.

I couldn't find a clip of a dancer talking about how surgery affected her dancing but here did you really mean the title to read "Video Expenses Tummy Tuck Surgery for Belly Dancer"?

No I did not, that was a typo. That is the problem of writing the pages myself and not having a proof reader. Thank you very much - now corrected. Sometimes posting in forums like this bring the advantage of such issues that I can quickly fix.

Here is the Video of Experiences of Tummy Tuck Surgery on Belly Dancing. I split that off since the total for that patient was about 30 minutes, way to long to keep as one video.

My being on this forum is just like my participation on Klinefelter Syndrome forums, Gynecomastia Forums and other issues I have a passion for: Public Education. It has been such efforts over the years that won me awards from my peers.

Michael Bermant, M.D.

 

[da Sage]

Actually, my joining this forum was for public education and to share experiences of those who used surgery to restore elements that they were not happy with.

I personally don't mind that you joined to point us toward your documentation. Such pointers would be on-topic to this thread.

For the years I have been looking at belly dancing videos, I have yet to see one of such design.

So you're a fan of belly dance? Please tell us more about your favorite videos - I for one am quite curious. What are your favorite videos? Who are your favorite dancers?

The fact is that Sumo wrestlers do not have a long life expectancy and seeing someone of that body build performing a belly dance might be something like Disney's hippos performing ballet in his cartoons.

:shok:

This sort of judgment is NOT on-topic or appreciated in this forum.:naghty:

To me it makes little sense to bash someone trying to help with posting answers based on extended experience, posting real examples and real experiences and documentation.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, M.D.

You might be helpful if you would share your examples and documentation without your rude and mocking exposition. Or, if it's too much trouble for you to be polite while posting, consider logging out and gracing some other forum with the *highly questionable* value of your company, so that we don't have tire our fingers by scrolling past your posts.

 

[DrBermant]

I personally don't mind that you joined to point us toward your documentation. Such pointers would be on-topic to this thread.



So you're a fan of belly dance? Please tell us more about your favorite videos - I for one am quite curious. What are your favorite videos? Who are your favorite dancers?

Here are some of the belly dancing links I have collected over the years that I have used to study the motion of the abdominal muscles in my quest to improve my surgical sculpture. They are not in any particular order. My real favorites are my own patient's videos that I do not have permission to share.

‪Tara Star Belly Dance Drum Solo‬
YouTube - Tara Star Belly Dance Drum Solo

Rachel Brice Drum Solo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keN17yEUIDo

belly dancing
YouTube - belly dancing

Amira belly dancing to Short Belly Dance Drum Solo by Raquy
YouTube - Amira belly dancing to Short Belly Dance Drum Solo by Raquy

Tribal Drum Solo
YouTube - Tribal Drum Solo

Art of Belly Dance: Drum Dance Demonstration
YouTube - Art of Belly Dance: Drum Dance Demonstration

Badia Bellydance Turkish drum solo
YouTube - Badia Bellydance Turkish drum solo

Izzy's Impish Encore
YouTube - Izzy's Impish Encore

Sadie BellyDance
YouTube - Sadie BellyDance

belly dancing
YouTube - belly dancing

Jamil Male Belly dancer
YouTube - Jamil Male Belly dancer

Turkish Belly Dance - Elçin
YouTube - Turkish Belly Dance - Elçin

Tribal Dream ( Belly Dance )
YouTube - Tribal Dream ( Belly Dance )

‪bellydance supersar!‬
YouTube - bellydance supersar!

Rachel Brice performs at Tribal Fest 6
YouTube - Rachel Brice performs at Tribal Fest 6

Rachel Brice - Drum solo
YouTube - Rachel Brice - Drum solo

BellyDance Superstars - Bellywood
YouTube - BellyDance Superstars - Bellywood

Ansuya!
YouTube - Ansuya!

Groupe drum solo
YouTube - Groupe drum solo

Akon - Bananza (Belly Dancer)
YouTube - Akon - Bananza (Belly Dancer)

TURKISH MALE BELLY DANCER DiVA
YouTube - TURKISH MALE BELLY DANCER DiVA

Rachel Brice Tribal Fusion Bellydance
YouTube - Rachel Brice Tribal Fusion Bellydance

Rachel Brice paris performance 2005
YouTube - Rachel Brice paris performance 2005

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Tummy Tuck Abdominoplasty Surgery

 

[Shanazel]

Originally Posted by DrBermant View Post
There is no question that bouncing flesh has its own artistry. To each their own. The fact is that Sumo wrestlers do not have a long life expectancy and seeing someone of that body build performing a belly dance might be something like Disney's hippos performing ballet in his cartoons. And yet there are those who claim that to be fat is natural, and beautiful. Yet others that claim that any clothing covering the body is unnatural. For those individuals, I do not criticize their choices nor their preferences.

What obnoxious comments, sir. Do you expect criticism of belly dancers with "bouncing flesh" to go unremarked because it is tacit and accompanied by disclaimers?

To help dancers regain and/or maintain abdominal flexibility after surgery is an admirable thing; I wish such therapy had been available for me and am happy that you make it available to dancers now.

To emphasize the importance of firm unmoving abdominal flesh to the art of belly dance is the mark of a narrow education and a narrow definition of beauty, though naturally I do not critisize your choices or preferences.

You may an expert on plastic surgery, but many of us are experts on belly dance. He who would educate dancers must first be educated about dancers, hmmm? Allow me, please, to introduce you to some of my favorite dancers of assorted sizes and abdominal firmness since your list is a little heavy (no pun intended, but I like it) on Rachel Brice:

Fifi, with an untucked tummy and marvelous jiggle:
YouTube - FIFI ABDOU at Mena House.Cairo-86. Part 2.#!

Maria Aya, also untucked and marvelous
YouTube - Maria Aya, Belgrade 2009

YouTube - Oriental Soul Kids - Maria Aya Greece

Claudia, beautiful and oh- is that her untucked tummy I see?
YouTube - Claudia Belly Dance - SARC Benefit - Portland Oregon

Chelsea, who'd probably not have been allowed to dance Clara in the winter ballet but who rocks as a tribal belly dance/reggae fusion performer
YouTube - Chelsea performs @ Tribal Fest 6

Tito, to represent my favorite unsculpted male dancers
YouTube - Tito - Helwa Sabah - ????

And, of course, Salome, your hostess, a perfect example of American Oriental
YouTube - Belly dancer Salome

 

[lizaj]

Rep rep Shan baby...
I am afraid one has to search further to find real belly dancers.

Rachel Brice is hardly a good example of a belly dancer as she doesn't usually belly-dance. She's a beautiful woman and marvellous dancer but she ain't Camelia.

 

[lizaj]

May I also add at this point that I am fully aware that many real belly dancers have made use of cosmetic surgeons particularly with face lifts and boob jobs. That's their choice and their way of trying to remain commercial and marketable. A superstar dancer trying to extend her career, that I fully understand. I think it's a shame but we all like to take short cuts and to hold off the inevitable if we can.
What I would hate to see is a number of young hopefuls who might go under the knife in the chances of getting a career say with the BDSS or ageing semi-pros who might think plastic will give them a chance.
Obviously with an inceasing number of cosmetic surgeons on the scene they are looking for new territories to exploit and that will include people for whom these processes are completely unecessary.

 

[Aniseteph]

This thread was making me nauseous but I had to look in again didn't I?

The fact is that Sumo wrestlers do not have a long life expectancy and seeing someone of that body build performing a belly dance might be something like Disney's hippos performing ballet in his cartoons. .

Pardon? How rude is that? Yeah, it's all just one big joke, let's laugh at the fat belly dancers, ha ha ha...

Rep to Shanazel, you said what I think (only more politely, as ever). :clap:

 

[Greek Bonfire]

I'm not a doctor but as long as they don't cut any muscle I would think you could go right back to dancing without any problems.

 

[da Sage]

Here are some of the belly dancing links I have collected over the years that I have used to study the motion of the abdominal muscles in my quest to improve my surgical sculpture. They are not in any particular order. My real favorites are my own patient's videos that I do not have permission to share.

‪Tara Star Belly Dance Drum Solo‬
YouTube - Tara Star Belly Dance Drum Solo

The quality of this video is so bad, I'm surprised you could learn anything from it.

Akon - Bananza (Belly Dancer)
YouTube - Akon - Bananza (Belly Dancer)

If you hadn't lost me at the "Disney hippo" comment, you would have lost me right there.

I call bull$hit. You've been studying bellydance videos for years to help improve your surgical abilities? But now it's Youtube videos (Youtube hasn't been around all that long). And your favorite videos are of your patient...how conveeeeenient.

It's a shame this forum doesn't have an ignore function.

 

[DrBermant]

The quality of this video is so bad, I'm surprised you could learn anything from it.


If you hadn't lost me at the "Disney hippo" comment, you would have lost me right there.

I call bull$hit. You've been studying bellydance videos for years to help improve your surgical abilities? But now it's Youtube videos (Youtube hasn't been around all that long). And your favorite videos are of your patient...how conveeeeenient.

It's a shame this forum doesn't have an ignore function.

My YouTube book marks were at 4 years, 3 years, 2 and 1 years. At 4 years was the first time I can document that search for belly dancing when I first learned how to actually bookmark the videos on YouTube. However, I have been studying the body in motion for decades, not just with belly dancing. But my video documentation of my own patients has stimulated me to continue to grow and improve with my techniques of surgical sculpture and documentation of recovery.

Each to his / her own.

Michael Bermant, M.D.

 

[Chani]

Dr Bermant, I have no doubt that you are being offensive intentionally. Possibly I'm wrong but I suspect you came up with that clip list after doing a quick search on YouTube being careful to select some clips that were posted as early as 2006. I also reckon you have one single client that you, post surgery, realised was a bellydancer and the $$ signs went up in your eyeballs and you came here to drum up new vulnerable targets. Do you tell your clients that you listen to music on your ipod while performing surgery? Doesn't that make it hard to hear your co-workers? Sounds risky.

Shanzel I love that list of clips. Mmmmm. Nice choices and I enjoyed watching them over a quiet morning cuppa while my children sleep. I heart these dancers with their bodies moving in all the right ways in all the right places.

Thanks also for including Claudia who does indeed rock. As a mother of a 10yo daughter who happens to be beautiful, cuddly and the most wonderful bellydancer I am tired of hearing that "she has the belly for it". She is a strong healthy girl who exercises loads and eats well and just as her older siblings, who were well padded at her age did, I have no doubt she will slim down when she hits puberty and if not so freaking what? As I said she is beautiful and healthy AND has a positive body image to boot.

I was trying to avoid your posts, Dr Bermant, but your comments have annoyed me so much I couldn't resist returning. This is a belly dance forum and while some members might be interested in being educated about tummy tucks or breast enhancements I doubt they would come here seeking that info and I'm sure they are well able to locate suitable forums that focus on surgery. Are you also stalking other dance forums or only belly dance forums?

Dr Bermant you take offence to what you refer to as "doctor bashing" but why on earth would you expect everybody to have the same opinion as you about surgery? And why would you expect those with differing opinions not to express them? Surely this isn't the first time you've got wind that many folk find unnecessary surgical enhancements distasteful not to mention the reality of it being potentially dangerous and even life threatening. I'm wondering if your vision has been clouded by your profession with all this crazy talk about dancing hippos!!??!!

Of course you are pro cosmetic surgery, it's how you make money, but please be aware that many people, most people, don't find man made plastic bodies attractive and are creeped out by the concept of surgical modifications when the person was perfectly normal to start with. Maybe you forget this because you are meeting a disroportionate number of people wanting surgery compared to the general public?

I also find it curious that a red blooded grown man wouldn't appreciate the natural beauty of a woman's body post childbirth. That's the attitude of a teenage boy and I should know because I have one. Do you have a wife and children Dr Bermant? If so then surely you know what I am saying is true, childbirth is beautiful, powerful and sexy and so are the bodies of women who have birthed - non flat tummies and all. Do you have daughters? Holding women to unrealistic standards is harmful. Our bodies are sacred and so much more so when they have grown our children within.

I'd like to tell you that not all women with imperfect but perfectly natural bodes are simply content. Believe it or not many of us are proud of being gifted years of maturing and growing into ourselves from nature & pregnancy & life. Not everybody wants to look younger than their years nor look as they did when they were younger.

I am 46 years old, have had 4 pregnancies and my tummy isn't as it was pre babies or as it was when I was younger but never would I feel that I shouldn't be allowed to dance or wear the same costumes as the other dancers. Never would I consider surgery. Actually, I enjoy my stretched tummy skin jiggling when I shimmy. With a flat butt and my breasts reigned in for dear life something jiggling is desirable. I have gentle stretch marks on my breasts that I don't try to hide. Now that they have faded to silver they are pretty - I actually match my costume:lol:. I do wear makeup but I don't try to look younger - just a more glam version of my regular homeschool mum self. I have a real person's body and I love that I am an example to my younger dancemates and to the audience of an older dancer.

I dance along side men and women of all sizes and all shapes. I dance with two women in their 80's and one disabled woman. Right now three of my classmates are pregnant, I myself performed 8 weeks after a birthing a stillborn baby midterm with my body in a post natal state alongside my instructor who was 5 months pregnant. For the first 18 monthts of dancing I was breastfeeding a preschooler. I am happy to report that not one of us have surgically enhanced bodies and we love dancing as a celebration of our bodies not for the purpose of trying to have or show off the perfect body.

 

[DrBermant]

I'm not a doctor but as long as they don't cut any muscle I would think you could go right back to dancing without any problems.

The stomach muscles are rarely cut during Tummy Tuck surgery unless the breast is being reconstructed with a TRAM flap. The free flap divides the lowest muscle, the pedicle flap injures the stomach muscles along the entire stomach as the blood vessels supporting the lower stomach tissues are brought into the chest.

However, any cut or sprain can slow an athlete back into activities, this includes dancing. Healing tissue brought into stress can disrupt the wound. That is why you need to protect a cut until it can tolerate that force. The same goes for a sprain. Push injured muscles too far too soon and the injury healing will be prolonged. A bad enough injury to any muscle can make its subsequent function not as nice as it was before injury.

Almost all Tummy Tuck surgery needs tightening of the stomach fascia and or repair of a Diastasis Recti or split between the rectus stomach muscles. These tissues are stretched when overweight and or pregnant. To understand the nature of injury to the stomach muscles and skin during tummy tuck, you need to understand the injury to the muscle fascia surface.

Warning this is a link to graphic pictures during surgery.

Diastasis Rectus Muscle and Fascia Repair

This is the repair that was done to the patient whose video I posted above in prior answers. After better understanding the nature of the injury, one can see why return to any activity can take time.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, M.D.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

Thanks for the video, Doc, but I'll take your word for it.

 

[DrBermant]

Thanks for the video, Doc, but I'll take your word for it.

Sorry that is just a few pictures, no video. That page was built years ago having tiny pictures that you click on to see the larger version protecting the more squeamish and yet be able to see the details if they wanted to.

I have planned to edit one of my during surgery videos of a Tummy Tuck, but had held off for years because I felt it was too graphic for public consumption. But now on the web others have put such excerpts online and I just started re reviewing my videos to consider if I will post such details. For some things it is not always best to be first.

The really neat thing is the evolution of the during surgery videos. With the older techniques, the surgery used to be bloody with subsequent major bruising, discomfort,swelling, and slowing of recovery. As my Tumescent Tummy Tuck evolved it became almost bloodless with minimal swelling, bruising, and discomfort. Looking at my videos of before tumescent compared to what we are doing today, the older method looked barbaric.

If you prefer a link to just drawings of the rectus repair it can show the some of the same points, but not the graphic nature of the injury process and why patients have to be careful during their recovery.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, M.D.

 

[Shanazel]

I couldn't get the photos to enlarge so I could see more of what was being done and would very much like to see a video of the procedure. Is "Diastasis Recti of Abdominal Muscles" the sort of damage that occurs when carrying large babies or multiples?

 

[DrBermant]

I couldn't get the photos to enlarge so I could see more of what was being done and would very much like to see a video of the procedure. Is "Diastasis Recti of Abdominal Muscles" the sort of damage that occurs when carrying large babies or multiples?

On the Surgical link go to the small pictures next to the large gray square saying "Warning Graphic Photos Click on small image for larger view." There are 3 small images that will swap the gray square with a larger version of the tiny image.

The other images on that page are navigation images to other aspects of the surgery.

In normal anatomy, the two rectus muscles are fairly close together. With excessive fat in the belly or pregnancy it is not just the skin that stretches. The sheath layer of fascia / muscles also stretches. This stretching can result in a separation of the 2 rectus muscles. The larger the tissue distortion, the greater the risk of damage or stretching. For some there is an actual tearing of some of the connective sheath. When extensive enough an actual hernia can develop.

You can demonstrate this issue by lying down muscles relaxed. Place your fingers in a line between the muscles. Now lift the legs and the rectus muscles will pull together. When separated, the first work of the muscles does not go into function, but instead to bringing the muscles together.

I only wished I knew of that patients hobby before surgery to have documented a belly roll with the muscles separated. I only have her description about what she did not like about the stretched out muscles and how the repair changed how she felt about her dance.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, M.D.

 

[lizaj]

Chani..as the song says.."Did I ever tell you,you're my hero.."
I know we have plenty of examples of people thinking that learning belly dance from Youtube clips is a good idea but as an aid to tackling drooping bellies...wot!:lol:

 

[Mya]

The quality of this video is so bad, I'm surprised you could learn anything from it.


If you hadn't lost me at the "Disney hippo" comment, you would have lost me right there.

I call bull$hit. You've been studying bellydance videos for years to help improve your surgical abilities? But now it's Youtube videos (Youtube hasn't been around all that long). And your favorite videos are of your patient...how conveeeeenient.

It's a shame this forum doesn't have an ignore function.

LOL@the akon video...i was wondering how come no other keen eyes spotted that one! i really almost swallowed my tongue there.

 

[Aniseteph]

It's a shame this forum doesn't have an ignore function.

Yes it does, and I am sorely tempted. Go into your user CP, under Settings and Options you can edit your ignore list.

Chani..as the song says.."Did I ever tell you,you're my hero.."

Seconding that.

Have a nice clip:

 

[Greek Bonfire]

Most surgeries are bloody. Personally, I think those kinds of pictures/videos should not be on this forum but on a forum where people are interested in medical advances, not bellydancing.