dancing with a saber - Page 4

Shanazel · 04-01-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

I could always threaten to play my zills if anyone really looked like causing trouble!!

It never hurts to have a secret weapon.

adiemus · 04-01-2008, 06:11 PM

It's no secret once I bring 'em out!
sorry for the thread hijack!

BTW does anyone know when the first sword dance was danced? I'd be interested in the history of its use...

Kashmir · 04-01-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da Sage

Agreed - men and women are different as groups, but there are always exceptions within the groups.

If you think of the normal curve what you get is two overlapping curves with the extremes of both having no overlap - but with the bulk in the middle overlapping. Think of height. On the whole men are taller than women - but there are many men shorter than many women. Where this becomes a problem is when people either consider it to be two distinct populations ie all men are taller than all women, or take it as prescriptive rather than descriptive ie you're a man therefore you must be taller than women.

For the record, like Brea, I had guns as a child - and made them when they were not available.

Brea · 04-01-2008, 11:47 PM

Exactly. Thank you Kashmir. It's when I see the thought that 'all' anything is one or the other that bothers me. If there are exceptions, there is no rule, in my opinion.

da Sage · 04-02-2008, 01:58 AM

For the record, when I refer to gender groups, I am thinking mode and mean, not the entire set of each gender. I must remember to add "generally", or "most of the time" in the future, so my statements that are meant to be read as general, don't default into the absolute.

For example, instead of writing, "Men have lower voices than women", I will write "Most men have lower voices than most women". Many people would have read the meaning of those two sentences as the same, but in fact they are different.

I am annoyed that anyone would think that I think in absolutes, but hey, this is the internet, where semantics rule. So pick away.

marob · 04-03-2008, 05:52 PM

So now that everything is semantically clear

Once again, thanks for all the comments. I especcially enjoyed

Quote:

da Sage

Actually, I think that men are genetically programmed to want to hit each other (and the ground) with big sticks. You get it in Britain, Africa, the Middle East, and even Hawaii.
I think I did not complete my thought here. My point was that in all these parts of the world, male stick dances evolved, probably independently. I am sure there are female stick dances, too (I seem to recall some from africa), but I'm not sure they're as common. I think the reason for this is male/female brain wiring.

Quote:

Marya
another perspective on sword dances
Well, I have seen sword dances depicting fighting on video as well as live. They used an Amazon motif. I have also seen a video from Lebanon with men using swords in a dance that utilized mock fighting positions.

Some of the various Fakeloric/tribalish style dancers do not emphasize the grace and balance skills but emphasize the warrior aspect.

I used to use the warrior aspect in a sword dance. People loved it. I created it somewhat tongue in cheek (in my mind we were Middle Eastern Ninjas) our costume included a long black cape, turbans, big white puffy sleeves, a vest, tassle belt and full shalvar. we used the cape in the dance and we did a little sword play too. I created the dance before the September 11, 2001 event where planes crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. After that I felt ashamed to be perpetuating a stereotype and promoting an image of the Middle East that was fake and wrong. I tried to rework it using different costumes but it just didn't feel right.

I have seen a sword used in a folkloric vignette of an imaginary 19th century Gawazee scene. This story line is a least possibly true, where some soldier asks a Gawazee to use his sword in a dance because he thought it would be entertaining. There are orientalist paintings that have this theme as well.

I generally like sword dances that emphasize balancing skills, but when I was developing mine, my teacher told me to pretend the sword was real and handle it as if it was extremely sharp to create the illusion that it was a real weapon and dangerous because the audience would like that better.

The sword is of course a potent phallic symbol and the image of a beautiful woman handling a sword in any fashion leaves little to the imagination

Marya

@ Kashmir

Quote:

Kashmir
Bottom line - if you don't like swords - don't dance with them. They are a fantasy prop. If you want to show you skill at balancing there are plenty of other (traditional) props - trays, shamadan, cane, ...

Like I already mentioned, there's sort of a balance between the pros and cons of sword dance. They're cool, look cool, the audience loves it. And then there's the warrior aspect. I don't think they're a fantasy prop, for wars were fought with them. So you could say, that nowadays they aren't used for killing anymore. Though I think thats due to better, more "efficient" weapons

wouldn't there be bombs and guns, they would certainly use swords. Trays are hard for beginners I think and shamadan has often a WTF effect on the audience, because they (usually) don't know about traditions. Canes are sort of a cheerfull prop to me (I have to admit that, though I know their origin. The first Saidi picture I saw was of a smiling woman with a cane on her head. Still today, if I see a Saidi performance, I rather think of a beautiful dancing shepherd), but IMO they lack the wow effect. If I will make up my mind, I will make my decision. I have not made my decision yet. I'm indeed thinking of making a critic show, which is working with little hints to get the audience into thinking about what I want to express.

Sorry for the bad language.

04-01-2008, 06:11 PM	#32 (permalink)
adiemus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 977	It's no secret once I bring 'em out! sorry for the thread hijack! BTW does anyone know when the first sword dance was danced? I'd be interested in the history of its use... __________________ He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)

04-01-2008, 11:47 PM	#34 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	Exactly. Thank you Kashmir. It's when I see the thought that 'all' anything is one or the other that bothers me. If there are exceptions, there is no rule, in my opinion. __________________ www.breamorgiane.com

04-02-2008, 01:58 AM	#35 (permalink)
da Sage V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,108	For the record, when I refer to gender groups, I am thinking mode and mean, not the entire set of each gender. I must remember to add "generally", or "most of the time" in the future, so my statements that are meant to be read as general, don't default into the absolute. For example, instead of writing, "Men have lower voices than women", I will write "Most men have lower voices than most women". Many people would have read the meaning of those two sentences as the same, but in fact they are different. I am annoyed that anyone would think that I think in absolutes, but hey, this is the internet, where semantics rule. So pick away. Last edited by da Sage; 04-02-2008 at 02:07 AM.