dancing with a saber - Page 3

Brea · 03-31-2008, 03:15 PM

And once again, so did I, as a child. Fighting, shooting, hitting things with sticks...

marob · 03-31-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Hi Marob. I just wanted to say that I think it's very cool that you put so much thought in what you project on stage and also in the rest of life. I love that you want to save the world and believe that the small things can make a difference. I hate, hate, hate weapon and violence glorification too.
__________________
You need chaos in your soul to create a dancing star-nietzsche

Thank you. I'm always very happy to find people like you who promote peace

karena · 03-31-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gisela

Hi Marob. I just wanted to say that I think it's very cool that you put so much thought in what you project on stage and also in the rest of life. I love that you want to save the world and believe that the small things can make a difference. I hate, hate, hate weapon and violence glorification too.

I'll second that. I think it's very easy to say not to worry, that these things don't affect the world, but in my view the things we see around us that are normalised, are the version of the world we construct. It isn't conscious but seeing a weapon in an OK context normalises it that little bit more. To be honest, I'd never thought about it, and I'm not sure whether it bothers me or not, but everything we do or don't do impacts on the world, and it's great you're recognising that.

I saw a review of some film the other day, in german I think, maybe won an award at Cannes that they have just made an English version of to engage an American audience. It's basically a violent film, that implicates the audience in the violence. So says the fact that you went to see it, legitimises the violence, so what you're seeing is your fault. Not sure I've articulated that the best. Thankfully I hate violent films so there's no danger of me seeing it, but just the little clips I saw are still haunting me.

Salome · 03-31-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

@Salome: *Lol* I would like to see the dancer who believes she's a "bad-ass-sword-fighting-machine" You' re right partly it's about dexterity. But the sword is like a symbol for danger. It's supposed to be sharp (well at least the audience thinks so) and if a dancer is good you can almost hear the front row whispering: OMG, she's putting that sharp thing on her waist! It has a certain thrill, with an umbrella it would never work. And guys think that women handling weapons are sexy (The brother of a friend of mine says so quite often and I have seen a place to play paintball where girls are paid to play this in bikinis). I have no idea why this is. Maybe it's the thrill as well. So why aren't we using something different like canes? It would show our skill. But we (this is me included) do want to make the maximum impression we can have on the audience. I don't know what is stronger - my will to persuade everyone I'm a good dancer or to be truely one and serious about changing the world.

This is just my opinion

But I'd say that, generally, it's probably not physical danger, symbolic or otherwise, that the audience feels watching a dancer balance a sword. But rather the element of suspense that stems from wondering if it will fall or if she/he will pull it off.

nicknack · 03-31-2008, 08:16 PM

Marob, no I don't do shows... although we do practice outside very close to the city centre so I suppose it's like a mini show every week for the people passing by on the road (although we may have to have a break for a couple of months as the instructor is just about signed for a tv show that will take him far far away for a fair few weeks. bad for us, awesome for him)

Marya · 03-31-2008, 09:13 PM

Well, I have seen sword dances depicting fighting on video as well as live. They used an Amazon motif. I have also seen a video from Lebanon with men using swords in a dance that utilized mock fighting positions.

Some of the various Fakeloric/tribalish style dancers do not emphasize the grace and balance skills but emphasize the warrior aspect.

I used to use the warrior aspect in a sword dance. People loved it. I created it somewhat tongue in cheek (in my mind we were Middle Eastern Ninjas) our costume included a long black cape, turbans, big white puffy sleeves, a vest, tassle belt and full shalvar. we used the cape in the dance and we did a little sword play too. I created the dance before the September 11, 2001 event where planes crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. After that I felt ashamed to be perpetuating a stereotype and promoting an image of the Middle East that was fake and wrong. I tried to rework it using different costumes but it just didn't feel right.

I have seen a sword used in a folkloric vignette of an imaginary 19th century Gawazee scene. This story line is a least possibly true, where some soldier asks a Gawazee to use his sword in a dance because he thought it would be entertaining. There are orientalist paintings that have this theme as well.

I generally like sword dances that emphasize balancing skills, but when I was developing mine, my teacher told me to pretend the sword was real and handle it as if it was extremely sharp to create the illusion that it was a real weapon and dangerous because the audience would like that better.

The sword is of course a potent phallic symbol and the image of a beautiful woman handling a sword in any fashion leaves little to the imagination

Marya

Kashmir · 03-31-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marob

hey everybody

So this is my first thread ever

I've been bellydancing for about 3 years now... and I'd like to try dancing with a saber. But I'm insecure.

It's cool and shows people your skills, but I'm worried about my principles. For I'm against any sort of war and weapons in everyday life. And I think if your dancing with a saber you're showing men that weapons are sexy. So I'd like to know if you're dancing with a saber and how your attitude towards weapons is?!?

Bottom line - if you don't like swords - don't dance with them. They are a fantasy prop. If you want to show you skill at balancing there are plenty of other (traditional) props - trays, shamadan, cane, ...

However, I don't think when dancing with a sword "you're showing men that weapons are sexy". I'm not showing men anything. I'm dancing with a prop which I use to develop a tableau - and show the audience that I can balance it (actually sword balancing is the easiest of the lot - but the GP are impressed). Frankly I worry less about the image I project while dancing with a sword than with a veil - or in bedleh!

So, if you like it go and practice. If you don't - think of something else to work on

da Sage · 04-01-2008, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da Sage

Actually, I think that men are genetically programmed to want to hit each other (and the ground) with big sticks. You get it in Britain, Africa, the Middle East, and even Hawaii.

I think I did not complete my thought here. My point was that in all these parts of the world, male stick dances evolved, probably independently. I am sure there are female stick dances, too (I seem to recall some from africa), but I'm not sure they're as common. I think the reason for this is male/female brain wiring.

adiemus · 04-01-2008, 06:35 AM

Could well be a male/female thing, with some individuals (like Brea) who are exceptions.
Maori have a whole bunch of stick games, but these aren't about fighting at all - they're shorter sticks that you clap together and throw to each other in complicated rhythms and chants - I expect that this type of game as in a lot of the war-like stick or cane games, was developed to practice coordination and timing and speed - so that people could go and catch food!!

I think that if you're wanting to demonstrate your skill, you can use other things apart from swords, but they look cool (think Kill Bill movie!!) and have a wow! factor that perhaps you initially don't think of with cane. However, as far as being a weapon goes, I think my ineptitude with cane means it would be far more likely to harm than me using a sword!!

I could always threaten to play my zills if anyone really looked like causing trouble!!

da Sage · 04-01-2008, 12:18 PM

Agreed - men and women are different as groups, but there are always exceptions within the groups.

India has some stick-striking dances too, IIRC.

03-31-2008, 03:15 PM	#21 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	And once again, so did I, as a child. Fighting, shooting, hitting things with sticks... __________________ www.breamorgiane.com

03-31-2008, 08:16 PM	#25 (permalink)
nicknack Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Nottingham UK Posts: 269	Marob, no I don't do shows... although we do practice outside very close to the city centre so I suppose it's like a mini show every week for the people passing by on the road (although we may have to have a break for a couple of months as the instructor is just about signed for a tv show that will take him far far away for a fair few weeks. bad for us, awesome for him) __________________ *Cause I'm not here to let you down. But the costume makes the clown.*

03-31-2008, 09:13 PM	#26 (permalink)
Marya Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Enterprise OR, USA Posts: 325	another perspective on sword dances Well, I have seen sword dances depicting fighting on video as well as live. They used an Amazon motif. I have also seen a video from Lebanon with men using swords in a dance that utilized mock fighting positions. Some of the various Fakeloric/tribalish style dancers do not emphasize the grace and balance skills but emphasize the warrior aspect. I used to use the warrior aspect in a sword dance. People loved it. I created it somewhat tongue in cheek (in my mind we were Middle Eastern Ninjas) our costume included a long black cape, turbans, big white puffy sleeves, a vest, tassle belt and full shalvar. we used the cape in the dance and we did a little sword play too. I created the dance before the September 11, 2001 event where planes crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. After that I felt ashamed to be perpetuating a stereotype and promoting an image of the Middle East that was fake and wrong. I tried to rework it using different costumes but it just didn't feel right. I have seen a sword used in a folkloric vignette of an imaginary 19th century Gawazee scene. This story line is a least possibly true, where some soldier asks a Gawazee to use his sword in a dance because he thought it would be entertaining. There are orientalist paintings that have this theme as well. I generally like sword dances that emphasize balancing skills, but when I was developing mine, my teacher told me to pretend the sword was real and handle it as if it was extremely sharp to create the illusion that it was a real weapon and dangerous because the audience would like that better. The sword is of course a potent phallic symbol and the image of a beautiful woman handling a sword in any fashion leaves little to the imagination Marya

04-01-2008, 06:35 AM	#29 (permalink)
adiemus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 977	Could well be a male/female thing, with some individuals (like Brea) who are exceptions. Maori have a whole bunch of stick games, but these aren't about fighting at all - they're shorter sticks that you clap together and throw to each other in complicated rhythms and chants - I expect that this type of game as in a lot of the war-like stick or cane games, was developed to practice coordination and timing and speed - so that people could go and catch food!! I think that if you're wanting to demonstrate your skill, you can use other things apart from swords, but they look cool (think Kill Bill movie!!) and have a wow! factor that perhaps you initially don't think of with cane. However, as far as being a weapon goes, I think my ineptitude with cane means it would be far more likely to harm than me using a sword!! I could always threaten to play my zills if anyone really looked like causing trouble!! __________________ He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)

04-01-2008, 12:18 PM	#30 (permalink)
da Sage V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,108	Agreed - men and women are different as groups, but there are always exceptions within the groups. India has some stick-striking dances too, IIRC.