dancing with a saber - Page 2

Reen.Blom · 03-30-2008, 09:26 PM

I agree that problem came to my mind too, I own an air rifle and I love target shooting, it is not to say that I would ever shoot at any alive creature, and it is not that I approve of any violence....

But some things became a sport that maybe came out of fighting and weapons.... Like target shooting, or archery or fencing.... When you watch sport competitions in say fencing you dont think that they want to kill each other, but rather want to show off dexterity.... Same goes for martial arts.... I have seen several times "performances" with a sword (eastern martial arts) and I cant help thinking that what originated as fighting turned into almost a dance.....

I guess a bellydancer with a sword sort of says "look at me Im dangerous, or I Can defend myself" rather than promoting war.... I suppose that's what it would mean for me, "I can stand up for myself".... Sort of a symbol, not a weapon.....

As for public opinion, and stereotype of a girl in a big car, or with a sword or whatever, if I cared about stereotypes I would not bellydance!

Reen.Blom · 03-30-2008, 09:27 PM

Ouch paintball in bikinis? THAT must be painful!!!!!

marob · 03-30-2008, 09:38 PM

@Shanazel: I've never seen it like that ("Cutting away of the past").

Wow. This could make it easier. Like that you're giving swords a new spiritual meaning... But the origin is still bothering me. To me veils stand for clothes, candles for light but sabers...rather killing. And this was usually done by men in war(or some other occasion), of course I link it to men and masculinity. Ah how I hate linking men and war. I've recently dated a soldier-> That has made it much harder for me to hate war cause I just can't hate men

But back to the subject

Keep posting other possible meanings of sabers! Maybe you can convince me through that!

gisela · 03-30-2008, 09:42 PM

Hi Marob. I just wanted to say that I think it's very cool that you put so much thought in what you project on stage and also in the rest of life. I love that you want to save the world and believe that the small things can make a difference. I hate, hate, hate weapon and violence glorification too.

da Sage · 03-30-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marob

hey everybody

So this is my first thread ever

I've been bellydancing for about 3 years now... and I'd like to try dancing with a saber. But I'm insecure.

It's cool and shows people your skills, but I'm worried about my principles. For I'm against any sort of war and weapons in everyday life. And I think if your dancing with a saber you're showing men that weapons are sexy. So I'd like to know if you're dancing with a saber and how your attitude towards weapons is?!?

Greetings to you!

I hope to dance with a saber within the year. Until then, I'm keeping my cane handy for balancing practice.

I hope if I dance with a cane, no one thinks it is some kind of statement about disabled people!

And I think dancing with a saber shows men that you are strong and sexy - it's rare that you will find a man with such a symbolic/poetic turn of mind as to view it as advocating violence. And IMO men watching a sword dance don't think of women going to war (although of course, many of us do), but more of a woman being unafraid and ready to take on anything (or anybody) who comes her way. It is more of a primal dance, than a particularly social relevant dance, IMO.

Although you could create a sword dance piece as a social commentary. You might catch some flack for that (pun intended).

Brea · 03-30-2008, 11:38 PM

As someone whose dance name, Morgiane, refers to a sword dance in the 1001 Nights, I have a few things to say.

First- women have gone to war as long as men have. It's not a particularly masculine thing.

Women Warriors Throughout History, 3500BC to 20th Century, battle, tournament, soldier, revolutionary, duellist, pirate, highwayman, general, gladiator, war, army, fighter, disguise, lady, female, maiden, military woman, female soldier, tar, navy, se

Second- much as what was discussed earlier in this thread, several styles of martial arts did develop as a dance (I believe kali is one of them; correct me if I'm wrong). Capoeira is another. The idea was to be able to practice fighting so the colonizers didn't know what people were doing.

Not all fighting is necessarily evil, weaponry is not either. The idea of 'I can take care of myself' is a nice one to have for everybody, men and women alike. Still, I think of the sword dance as mainly something beautiful, a 'hey look how I can balance this thing' dance.

Even if it is or was about war, if it is interesting, why not? It's not as if fighting never happens, and if bellydance expresses life, here we have another example of what happens in life. Much like the hula can be about war, or love, or childbirth, I think bellydance can encompass all those things too.

KuteNurse · 03-31-2008, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanazel

I want a tee shirt...

Let's order a stock of them! lol I want a pink and a red one.

adiemus · 03-31-2008, 05:08 AM

Did you know that cane originates from the stick fighting that men do in the middle east? So cane dancing is a take on a fighting dance... but we never see it that way.

Do y'all want the slogan on the T-shirt I'm designing?!!

da Sage · 03-31-2008, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adiemus

Did you know that cane originates from the stick fighting that men do in the middle east? So cane dancing is a take on a fighting dance... but we never see it that way.

I did know that, but you never know how the GP (general public) or the TB (touchy bellydancers) will react. I know people who thought dancing with spoons was some ridiculous sort of artsy modern fusion.

And a lady in my bellydance class said that tahtib is derived from morris dancing, so it must be true!

Actually, I think that men are genetically programmed to want to hit each other (and the ground) with big sticks. You get it in Britain, Africa, the Middle East, and even Hawaii.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adiemus

Do y'all want the slogan on the T-shirt I'm designing?!!

Go for it!

adiemus · 03-31-2008, 06:45 AM

...and even wee boys who haven't been socialised (knowingly anyway!) to guns and fighting - they grab sticks and either go 'bang! bang!' or play as if they're swords or clubs...

03-30-2008, 09:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
Reen.Blom V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Between Heaven and Earth Posts: 2,263	I agree that problem came to my mind too, I own an air rifle and I love target shooting, it is not to say that I would ever shoot at any alive creature, and it is not that I approve of any violence.... But some things became a sport that maybe came out of fighting and weapons.... Like target shooting, or archery or fencing.... When you watch sport competitions in say fencing you dont think that they want to kill each other, but rather want to show off dexterity.... Same goes for martial arts.... I have seen several times "performances" with a sword (eastern martial arts) and I cant help thinking that what originated as fighting turned into almost a dance..... I guess a bellydancer with a sword sort of says "look at me Im dangerous, or I Can defend myself" rather than promoting war.... I suppose that's what it would mean for me, "I can stand up for myself".... Sort of a symbol, not a weapon..... As for public opinion, and stereotype of a girl in a big car, or with a sword or whatever, if I cared about stereotypes I would not bellydance! __________________ Join WORLD BELLY DANCE DAY! www.worldbellydanceday.com Last edited by Reen.Blom; 03-30-2008 at 09:30 PM.

03-30-2008, 09:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Reen.Blom V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Between Heaven and Earth Posts: 2,263	Ouch paintball in bikinis? THAT must be painful!!!!! __________________ Join WORLD BELLY DANCE DAY! www.worldbellydanceday.com

03-30-2008, 09:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
gisela Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 945	Hi Marob. I just wanted to say that I think it's very cool that you put so much thought in what you project on stage and also in the rest of life. I love that you want to save the world and believe that the small things can make a difference. I hate, hate, hate weapon and violence glorification too. __________________ You need chaos in your soul to create a dancing star-nietzsche

03-30-2008, 11:38 PM	#16 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	As someone whose dance name, Morgiane, refers to a sword dance in the 1001 Nights, I have a few things to say. First- women have gone to war as long as men have. It's not a particularly masculine thing. Women Warriors Throughout History, 3500BC to 20th Century, battle, tournament, soldier, revolutionary, duellist, pirate, highwayman, general, gladiator, war, army, fighter, disguise, lady, female, maiden, military woman, female soldier, tar, navy, se Second- much as what was discussed earlier in this thread, several styles of martial arts did develop as a dance (I believe kali is one of them; correct me if I'm wrong). Capoeira is another. The idea was to be able to practice fighting so the colonizers didn't know what people were doing. Not all fighting is necessarily evil, weaponry is not either. The idea of 'I can take care of myself' is a nice one to have for everybody, men and women alike. Still, I think of the sword dance as mainly something beautiful, a 'hey look how I can balance this thing' dance. Even if it is or was about war, if it is interesting, why not? It's not as if fighting never happens, and if bellydance expresses life, here we have another example of what happens in life. Much like the hula can be about war, or love, or childbirth, I think bellydance can encompass all those things too. __________________ www.breamorgiane.com Last edited by Brea; 03-30-2008 at 11:43 PM.

03-31-2008, 05:08 AM	#18 (permalink)
adiemus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 977	Did you know that cane originates from the stick fighting that men do in the middle east? So cane dancing is a take on a fighting dance... but we never see it that way. Do y'all want the slogan on the T-shirt I'm designing?!! __________________ He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)

03-30-2008, 09:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
marob Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 25	@Shanazel: I've never seen it like that ("Cutting away of the past"). Wow. This could make it easier. Like that you're giving swords a new spiritual meaning... But the origin is still bothering me. To me veils stand for clothes, candles for light but sabers...rather killing. And this was usually done by men in war(or some other occasion), of course I link it to men and masculinity. Ah how I hate linking men and war. I've recently dated a soldier-> That has made it much harder for me to hate war cause I just can't hate men But back to the subject Keep posting other possible meanings of sabers! Maybe you can convince me through that!

03-31-2008, 06:45 AM	#20 (permalink)
adiemus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 977	...and even wee boys who haven't been socialised (knowingly anyway!) to guns and fighting - they grab sticks and either go 'bang! bang!' or play as if they're swords or clubs... __________________ He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)