Bellydance and burlesque - Page 3

Brea · 11-13-2007, 03:50 AM

Aziyade-

Brilliant points! Yes, you're right, we could argue about it all day. Perhaps the point that the book was making (and I was attempting to make) was that the reason bellydance is associated with striptease is that after Little Egypt came around everyone just had to have one in their show...so because of all the competition the owners of some clubs started having them take clothes off to attract crowds, and that was where I was trying to make the point. I find it interesting because I do not deny that bellydance is sexual and sensual; in fact I have always believed that to be the purpose of the dance. However I do think there is a big difference between that and stripping.

Regarding the Goddess: again, there MAY be accurate historical evidence in support (though I don't put a lot of faith in it), but the problem I have is that EVERYTHING has to be mother-goddess based (bellydance, Scotland, Ireland, etc) and it's frustrating because I am so involved in all these things and know that there is no historical background for it. Especially when bellydance instructors encourage the myth...grrr.

-Brea Morgiane

cathy · 11-17-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aziyade

I think the reason we're equated with strippers (or rather dancers at the XXX Adult Theatres) can be EASILY seen on YouTube. "Watch me shake my sexy thang cuz I'm a bellydancer." Nuff said.

But really, it's a holdover from Victorian times when they were so sexed up but weren't allowed to talk about it in polite company. It's Orientalist fantasy played out. It's political -- those nasty heathens over there doing that filthy dance (allows us to occupy their lands without guilt.) It's the fantasy of the dancing girl. Strippers wore pasties. So did bellydancers -- BECAUSE the strippers wore them, and because nightclub owners wanted to have an exotic and slightly "naughty" feel without worrying about indecency laws and paying off local politicians.

Dear Aziyade,

Agree very much but would go further. The XXX dance portrayed on youtube (or elsewhere) has no bearing on Oriental dance in many cases, or only the most tangential (costume say), except insofar as they use the name "belly dance" for what they do. The thing that bugs me is 1) they use this name and plenty assume that this is correct and 2) even some people who aren't trying to portray XXX dance put in shall we say one or two X's. Why do so many dancers throw in the gratuitous sex appeal--I wonder whether they WANT to play the role and the other stuff makes it more allowable/expected etc. (Dear A'isha--if you are reading this I do not want to have the argument again as to whether this dance is inherently slightly naughty/sexy.)

P.S. In other words I can see how the two things became conflated but it's worse when they are confused in the minds of the dancers themselves. If they are enjoying the burlesque aspects of it, I wish they would recognize that and DO burlesque or stripping or XXX dance. I have no problem with any of that.

Cathy

Carrie · 11-21-2007, 05:54 PM

I've noticed some instructors (like Suspira of Orlando Belly Dance, for example) have started teaching exotic dance and burlesque classes. That kind of disappoints me, because it's furthering the connection people make between the two.

TribalDancer · 11-21-2007, 06:38 PM

I don't have an issue with that, so long as they don't cross-advertise or cross-present/perform it.

11-13-2007, 03:50 AM	#21 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	Aziyade- Brilliant points! Yes, you're right, we could argue about it all day. Perhaps the point that the book was making (and I was attempting to make) was that the reason bellydance is associated with striptease is that after Little Egypt came around everyone just had to have one in their show...so because of all the competition the owners of some clubs started having them take clothes off to attract crowds, and that was where I was trying to make the point. I find it interesting because I do not deny that bellydance is sexual and sensual; in fact I have always believed that to be the purpose of the dance. However I do think there is a big difference between that and stripping. Regarding the Goddess: again, there MAY be accurate historical evidence in support (though I don't put a lot of faith in it), but the problem I have is that EVERYTHING has to be mother-goddess based (bellydance, Scotland, Ireland, etc) and it's frustrating because I am so involved in all these things and know that there is no historical background for it. Especially when bellydance instructors encourage the myth...grrr. -Brea Morgiane

11-21-2007, 05:54 PM	#23 (permalink)
Carrie Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 9	I've noticed some instructors (like Suspira of Orlando Belly Dance, for example) have started teaching exotic dance and burlesque classes. That kind of disappoints me, because it's furthering the connection people make between the two.

11-21-2007, 06:38 PM	#24 (permalink)
TribalDancer Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 313	I don't have an issue with that, so long as they don't cross-advertise or cross-present/perform it.