Tarik Sultan

Well, I think I can say I know Rocky better than anyone having lived with her for 15 1/2 years. She definatelty has a way of expressing herself that often rubs people the wrong way. As far as being cannonized for Sainthood. I can definately tell you for a fact that not everyone feels the same way. I would say that for everyone person who worships at her shrine, there is probably almost the same number that wishes she would dry up and blow away. She does get a lot of the same flack that A'isha gets and for the same reason.

I don't know why, but I think that many people really get their egos bruised when you tell them that something they believed to be true is not. Perhaps a large part of their identity is based on the fact that they consider themselves experts in one area or another, or that what they are doing has the stamp of authenticity on it. Others I think may feel threatened because what they are doing is not the real thing if you are looking from the perspective Middle Eastern Dance. Therefore, when someone comes along and says this is not authentic, Egyptian, or Middle Eastern x, y, z, they feel hurt, threatened, invalidated.

As for Morocco's tone, as Sedonia mentioned, the problem was that unlike today, many people WERE trying to pass off what they were doing as authentic Egyptian, or Middle Eastern styles. They would make something up and then say it was a folk dance from such and such a place, or make up stories to explain things they really had no knowledge about because they really didn't know anything about the real culture. My favorate is that in the Middle East women would greet each other by shaking the coins on their bras. Or the dance that someone made up claiming it was a traditional dance that the women did in the mosque. I've heard people telling audiences that the two piece copstume is an authentic example of what the women wear in the harems in the Middle East. Now Rocky comes out, having been there done that and written the book and tells the truth. Person who ever, now feels embarrassed, defensive, hurt.

Rocky on the other hand is annoyed at how many ignorant people there are who just make sh** up and perpetuate innacuracy and nonsense. And you know what? If you've been struggling for decades to be taken seriously and are constantly put in a position where you have to refute silly nonsense, and then get challenged by people who know absolutely NOTHING about the topic.....you would get a little cranky too don't ya think?

I've given just a few examples of innacuracy that was flying around. So those of us, such as Morroc, A'isha myself and others, who have the knowledge, been to those cultures and are still learning are merely trying to set the record straight and represent the reality of our particular dance form which is the product of the specific cultures where it all began. We are trying to educate, bring cultural understanding and appreciation and share the beauty of the real Middle Eastern dance forms, Raks Sharki as well as the social and folkloric forms. And when we hear statements that stereotype, misrepresent or tottally distort the reality of the culture, we will try to share our knowledge. We aren't higher beings from another plain of elevated conciousness.............okay well maybe I am! , we are just ordinary people who have spent a lot of time and money to research these things and are blessed to have seen these things in the native settings as well as what we have learned from interacting with those communities here.

However, we are human, and when we try to share and then get confronted and challenged, we get frustrated. Then compound that with all the wanna bees we come across who think they are professionals just because some club owner who wants to make a buch has hired them because he figures curte chicks will attract guys who buy drinks and besides, he can pay her next to nothing. just like someone I met in a club I worked in. Nice girl, but never took more than 3 dance classes, doesn't know how to hear the beat in the music, and just can't dance worth shi*! When I suggest she come take my class because it will improve her dancing, her eyes glaze over and she goes, yes, but I'm already a professional, meaning, "I'm too full of myself to take a class with ordinary people". Another girl auditioned in my regular venue, another 2 week wonder. I suggested she come to my class, she did, could hardly keep up in the warmup, never showed up again, but guess what, SHE'S NOW TEACHING!

So these are the things that burn my balls, ooops did I say balls? (Oh Hell, balls, balls, balls, time to stop taking life so seriously). So when we talk about crap running around rampant, this is what we're venting our spleen about, not the valid dance variations done by qualified, talednted and well trained professionals.

Tarik Sultan

I've written a reply to the African elements part of our discussion, but I'm going to wait till I can post some clips to youtube to demonstrate what I'm talking about. Its hard to convey verbally what is really a visual medium.

Aisha Azar

Dear Freya,
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. Your post makes me know that its all worth it!! I wish you a long and wonderful dance life and I hope we do get to meet in person one day.
I have known Sedonia for a long time, and Tarik and I are post and email pals. I think they are both wonderful, too! I have not met Aziyade in person but hope to some day. I think all three are thinking people who care deeply about the dance.
PS: My dance company is sponsoring a wondcerful dancer from Sweden in a couple of weeks. DaVid of Scandinavia is coming to do a show and workshop. He lives now in San Diego, California. We are so excited to have him!!!

Dear Sedonia,
Sorry, about the coke!! (It really is time for me to get that coffee mailed off to you, isn't it??)

Dear Tarik,
I like Mini Pinscher Kadogs, I mean kabobs. Crispy on the outside, tender on the inside... I am willing to share. We can sit together on my queen sized bed, dish and do our snacksersize!! (Aziz does not share his icecream and you have to bring your own container from the fridge for snacksersize, if you ever go to his place!!)

Hugs to you all,
A'isha

Gabi

Wow - you all give good parties, too bad they are so exclusive :p

Anyway - we'll be next across the hall munching on cheese and crackers and sipping w(h)ine - martini's are also welcome, bring your own olives - we will be watching you-tube videos and making snarky remarks - then we are going to organize a Bedleh raid on The Other Gang

Tarik Sultan

Heeey we could start our own strret gang THE BELLY BUNCH!

BB:"Hey you, you're wearing our colors"!
Victim: "Which one"? :eek:
BB: "ALL OF THEM"!

Aisha Azar

Dear Tarik,
Well, we DO have our own gang here. We are called the BOBs, or "Bitches of Bellydance". We are gender non-exclusive and your scenario above would fit right into our ethic!!! That and Gabi's Bedlah Raid are right up our alley! We even have virtual t-Shirts!! You are just the kind of recruits we kidnap...er.. enlist.
Love, A'isha

Gabi

deleting due to being off topic

Dev

Dear Jeffrey ...
You are over reacting, Anyway Thank you very much for your answers, In many articles I have read that the dance form started in India by the Gypsies ( please don’t think it’s tongue lashing, I think gypsies sound quite exotic..) But I was never sure. Mentioning that here in the thread seems to make a few members very angry, I respect everybody for Their meaningful reply, All I can say we all are here to agree to disagree.

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Dev

Dear Tarik ,
You explain things quite nicely, Thank you very much.

The Southern Indian people are always different to the Northern Indians, To start with they both are different groups, Aryans and Dravidian , Aryan or Indo-European Groups settled in Northern part of India (Punjab , Haryana) between 1500 and 800 B.C. Well the Aryans themselves are foreigners in Indian sub-continent. By around 500 B.C., most of northern India was inhabited by the Aryan Group, And ancient India’s most famous ruler Ashokas empire used to expand from Karnataka to Modern Afghanistan .His ties with Syria, Macedonia, and Epirus are well documented by many western visitors who visited India in that period. And cultural exchange was quite common in that period of history, So I wont be surprised if Indian culture was very much of a part of middle eastern History and vice versa.

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Moon

Most West Europian languages are evolved from sanskrit if I remember right?
In Dutch language there's even a word similar to Hindi: naam (=name)

oooops sorry for going off topic.

Let me just add I appreciate this thread. It's very interesting, I'm learning a lot from it and it's nice to read those different opinions. Difference is what makes humankind interesting, right?