Aisha Azar

Dear Jeffrey,
You accuse me of ridiculing other dancers, etc, but don't give me any examples of this alleged ridicule, as I asked for in my last post to you. If you don't care to prove your point, or can not, stop accusing me of doing something that I am not doing.
You didn't get from my post I guess, that I am acquainted with Morocco, have been in a show or two with her and consider her to be a good friend, though we have not met in person for some years. She has recently even given me some great advice and steered me in the right direction with some personal issues. I don't need you to explain anything about her to me and did not ask you to do anything other than ask her about me. I wonder if you ever even read anything I write.... or just prefer to run me down without knowing a darn thing about me.
A'isha Azar
Egyptian belly dancer

sedoniaraqs

Jeffrey: I know Morocco as well as A'isha and most of Morocco's qualities that you expound on below apply equally to A'isha.

What you may not know is that people have been choosing to take offense and get their feelings hurt from things that Morocco has been posting to the MED list and other internet forums since the mid 1990's, and longer still via other forums. Its just that Morocco has been running out of gas in terms of saying the same things over and over and constantly catching flack so she rarely repeats her mantras she's been harping on for decades. Moreover, Morocco's basic messages (truth in advertising, its all good just call it what it is) is more or less the same as A'isha's.

Moreover, Morocco was one of the first to maintain loudly and publicly that American Tribal style dance isn't ethnic dance and isn't oriental dance and is in fact American and NOT Middle Eastern, and if you think that that didn't hurt lots of feelings and ruffle lots of feathers, well you haven't been around long enough to remember. AND she was one of the first to proclaim loudly and publicly that stuff that is not Rom shouldn't be called Rom or Gypsy. And if you think she didn't generate hurt feelings and defensive posturing over the Gypsy thing you haven't been around long enough or are selectively forgetting. AND it seems today that history has been revised such that it seems that ATS dancers and "Gypsy" dancers doing fantasy stuff never claimed authenticity but that was not so in some cases in the 80's and 90's.

MOREOVER, no offense at all to Morocco but her email writing style is much more blunt than A'ishas, and much more likely to unintentionally be taken the wrong way. I mean, have you ever been on the receiving end of one of her Screeeeeeeches!!!?? If not I have the MED list archives since 1997 and I can dig out some of those very heated debates.

In contrast, A'isha seems to me impossibly polite, even in the face of being constantly misconstrued. So why the heck is she the bad guy? Where are the supposed insults and barbs? Where is the ridicule? I have known A'isha for a long time and have never heard her engage in spiteful or cathartic ridiculing or catty comments. I can't even say that much about myself.

Finally, with respect to people who have had their feelings hurt, some people will take offense when none is intended.

So why is Morocco being cannonized (St. Rocky -- actually sounds pretty good), and A'isha villified for basically the same stance?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Sedonia

Aziyade

Sigh. I don't really understand why people seem to get so hostile with each other on forums like this. The original poster said "what are your thoughts" and people have been posting their thoughts on the matter.

The same issues keep getting discussed every year or so on every board or elist or magazine, since at least the 1970s (that's the farthest back I can keep track!) Morocco and Jamila didn't agree. Jamila and Burt Balladine didn't agree. Serena, Dahlena, Bobby Farrah -- our pioneers RARELY agreed on anything, judging from reviews and articles in old dance magazines, and talking to some of them today. Disagreement is GOOD academically, because it spawns discussion and further thought.


There are two camps today:

1. Those who view "belly dance" to be an ethnic dance, growing from specific cultures and regions.

2. Those who view "belly dance" as a catch-all term for dance characterized by a focus on torso and hip movements rather than limb extensions or line, and not specifically tied to the Afro-Cuban music and dance tradition.


People in the first camp will never understand (or if they understand, they won't agree with) the viewpoint of the second camp, BECAUSE of their own viewpoint.

(A parallel -- I can't possibly understand the motivation of someone who spins poi and calls it "Native American hoop dancing" -- because it's NOT.)

That doesn't mean that people in the first camp can't respect interpretive or alternative dance as ART. And it doesn't mean that they think dance doesn't evolve. They just think it shouldn't be labeled as something it isn't.

WHICH is why I personally don't advocate the use of the term "belly dance" to describe what we've called here "raqs, raqs sharki, raqs beledi, raqs shaabi" etc. I hate that our school uses that phrase, and usually I qualify it by saying we teach Middle Eastern "belly" Dance.

Goth is not a Middle Eastern cultural phenomenon. Orientalist fantasy dance is not part of Middle Eastern culture. Hobbit dancing is not Middle Eastern. So they can't be considered "Middle Eastern "belly" Dance." They can, however, be considered "Belly Dance" -- a point on which I think I disagree with A'isha and Morocco and Tarik.

But then, is there a line between what is Belly Dance and what is Latin Dance? Or for that matter, where's the line between Belly Dance and Carmen Electra's striptease workout #2, which uses almost entirely a "belly dance" movement vocabulary?

This is why I like to stick with "Middle Eastern" as a descriptor. The lines are much wider and a lot less blurry.

Aziyade

oops- Sedonia and I were writing at the same time.

So, "What She Said up there!"

Gabi

Beats me. Is she?? Life just ain't fair, maybe it's the "essence"

Since the question was asked though - my personal feeling to "how relevant is Egypt to Modern Belly Dance" is, it's interesting to see how others do it, did it, or will do it but interest is the end of the relevance for me. I would like if the current form (or any form for that matter) does not get lost but if it does it's because not enough people were interested in keeping it up.

Artists will make art the way they want to no matter who likes what they do - they will also call it what they like. The public will support whatever takes their fancy, usually without giving a care who is calling what by the right name.

Those who don't like it can twitch and grumble but they won't change things by doing that even if they do convince a few people of the "correctness". If you want to keep what you want alive you have to do it yourself - through your dance and your schools and hopefully through your pupils who will continue to do the same. You cannot brow beat people into concern, care or interest.

Aisha Azar

Dear Aziyade,
I, too, wish we could stay relevant to the subject, and I should , I guess, feel badly that I finally let myself get dragged into a confrontation, but .... I don't. I feel the need to defend myself once in awhile.
Believe me, I try and try to stay on subject, I really do, but now and then my temper gets the best of me. (You should only see what I cut from my posts!!)

However, I think we could open up a thread in the debate forum...." Is A'isha Azar an arrogant, meanhearted, narrowminded, ignorant, threatened freak who eats puppies for bed time snacks??"

Regards,
A'isha

Freya

Dear Aisha,

I rarely enter these heated debates—and there has been a few of them these past few weeks—as I still very much consider myself a student, and not as well versed in the history and practice of ME dance (or should I say bellydance) as many of the other members of this forum. I do want to say that you are one of my most favorite teachers, although I have never taken class with you or even met you. Since I joined the forum early this spring I have eagerly been reading your posts as well as your articles on your website, and I have learned so much from you. Your research is extremely solid, your opinions are clear and well formulated, and you share your knowledge with a passion and conviction that few can equal.

As for the hot topic of “defining bellydance” I have greatly appreciated Tarik’s ideas about this subject as well, and I think Sedonia and Aziyade provided perceptive comments and summaries of the debate in their recent posts. Much more will probably said about this topic, and perhaps I will contribute a bit more to debating the actual issue at hand at a later point.

For now, I just wanted to write you short fan letter Aisha, as well as remind your opponents that they need to bring on the heavy artillery if they engage in intellectual combat with you. Petty mud slinging just will not do.

With respect and fondness,
Freya

sedoniaraqs

A'isha You just made me spew diet coke out my nose!!!

Sedonia

Tarik Sultan

:o Ooowh, ooowh, ooowh can I have some? The snacks I mean....Can I have a little hot sauce on mine please?

Tarik Sultan

THANK YOU! More to come, so stay tuned.