Aisha Azar

Dear Aniseteph,
The debate seems to be about belly dance and its relevance to Egypt. I see relevance in that I know that most Americans who are uneducated to the dance think of Raqs Sharghi as "belly dance". When they think of that particular dance, they are not thinking of fusion, or any other western inspired dance form. Whether realistically or on the fantasy level, they are thinking of dancing girls from the mysterious countries of the Middle East, Alladin, Ali Baba, harems,etc. This is why I am so insistant that belly dance is the English for Raqs Sharghi...because of its connotation for the average American audience.
The problem is that most Americans, when they see the words "belly dance" are expecting something with an authentic ethnic provenance. Neither my issue nor Tarik's has ever been that there is no value in the fusion forms that have developed. Both of us have repeatedly stated that we see some really fine dancing going on out there in these forms, ( though there are many who simply refuse to hear that when we say it. I was recently surprised to read that I "hate" Goth dance!!). All we want is clarity and definition. among dancers, "belly dance" might cover a multitude of things, but for the general audience, they think they are seeing authentic ethnic "belly dance" and they are usually not. The word may have taken on new meaning in dance circles but not for the general public. I hope you will believe me on this because I have taken the time to ask . Many dancers are leaving the average person out of the equation, yet they are often a large part of our audiences.

I am not sure what "being trolled" means, but if there is a negative implication, then you are not.
Regards,
A'isha

Jeffrey

I apologize for lumping you into the same place as I understand that you are essentially saying what I am saying: "Bellydance" is influenced by Middle-Eastern dance but it is not Raqs Sharki. I have seen you dance many times and I am friendly with Morroco (Carolyn) and many of her students and friends. You are quite a spectacular dancer.
The has been a belligerent and condescending tone on this board towards one style or another and people have been terribly insulted. I am more interested in dance as an art form. My knowledge of West African dance and its influences is extensive. I play lead djembe in a West African dance company here in the NY area and I am well versed in the rhythms and dances of the Malinke people. Other than it being an exciting dance forn, I honestly cannot see much connection to the movements in Raqs Sharki, but through the centuries it is undoubtedly evolved also. Malinke dance is much more "grounded" with sharp stucatto and almost acribatic moves. There is a relationship to the earth=bass tone, sky=slap tone (tek) that is taught to be a part of ME dance by percussionists such as Houssam Ramsey and Souhail Kaspar, but other than that I see very little similarity.
My tabla and other ME percussion is extensive in playing with varied ME and "bellydancers". You mentioned that anyone putting on a two piece costume and dancing to music like "Solace" does not make you a bellydancer. I have also played for many folkloric ME dance companies and the woman were completely covered as they would have been. Is not the two piece costume for the dancers as a direct result of an attempt to appeal to western audiences? In other words: to make it more like what we consider "bellydance"?
Dear A'isha,
I am directly responding to the type of tone and criticism that you have employed on this board. I have conducted myself in a gentlemanly manner and will continue to do so. But you cannot lash out and make value judgements against others (often insulting them) and not expect to get some criticism in return. You get what you give.
Am I upset that there are clubs in the Far East that have acts that are playing American Rock and Roll with Elvis impersonators? No of course not. Do they look like Elvis and sound like Elvis to me? No of course not. It is highly influenced by Elvis and early American Rock and Roll, no doubt, and it is art, no doubt....no problem. They are paying tribute to an art form that they love and respect through the eyes of where they came from and they are doing it very well. You may look upon them with some humor because of what you see as different. For all of your "self hype" as an American dancing traditional dance in America; how do you think you would be honestly viewed by actual ME dancers and musicians? Not what they tell you to your face, but how they would honestly talk about you among themselves. I think it might hurt. Now you know exactly the type of thing that I am warning you against when you openly say the things you do to others. You're hurting. Artists shouldn't hurt each other. You could find yourself in the company of one.
Cordially,
-Jeffrey

Aniseteph

Heigh ho, I'll keep it short and sweet then (Yay! ). So I'm not a wannabe bellydancer then , and should I have the nerve at the next Christmas party to take my moves to the dancefloor I'll just have to tell them when they ask (and in the words of the song "they're certainly going to ask me"**) that its because I've been spending 2 years learning.... what?.... (hey, I could do a poll here!*).... I KNOW! EXOTIC DANCING!!!!

(Where's me pole and platforms gone?)

*yeah, yeah, making an idiot of myself. I know. It's traditional at British work Christmas parties, and someone's got to keep up the old traditions. My predecessor did a mean Saturday Night Fever routine so I've got a lot to live up to...

** from Oh What A Lovely War I think. Lyrics continue somewhere "there was a front, but D****ed if we knew where". Ha ha ha, if you saw me dancing you'd know where the Front was! *snork*

Gabi

Ahhh Grasshopper - ConfusedUs say: those not willing to make idiot of themselves, already are

I hope you have a lovely dress and tassel belt to whip out at the appropriate moment and don't knock poles they are very handy when you go a little too far in your backbend *snork*

Gabi

Ahh Jeffrey - your post are a balm to some of us. Thank you.

Aisha Azar

Dear Jeffrey,
Since you know Morocco, why don't you ask her about me? One who is conducting himself in a gentlemanly manner does not go about calling others, arrogant, etc. I have never done so to you, though I have good reason. I do not make it habit to constantly point out other people's presumed foibles and have done so in exactly four situations since I have been on this forum...and then I did so on purpose. You, on the other hand, do not even know what you are blaming me for. Disagreeing with you or anyone else does not make me arrogant. At least I can keep on task and do not feel the need for telling you what I really think of YOU. Did it ever occur to you that people are usually really see through the kind of nonsensethat you are trying to pull in that message above? As long as Tarik agrees with you then he is not arrogant? Please!
I know how I am viewed by Arabs. Did you not read that I have been active in the Arab community for the last 30 years? I have even recently had to answer to the FBI because of my visibility and longevity in the Arab community. I have not spent that time laying on the couch hoping I can get my dance to look Egyptian. My first two instructors were Arabs and one danced on the Egyptian circuit for some time. Over the years I have studied with people who really know their stuff and have helped me to make myself a better Egyptian style dancer, and I followed their advice. It's going to be interesting to me to see how many people jump down your throat the way they did mine for suggesting the same thing that I suggested to another dancer about a year ago, in a much nicer way than you suggested it to me. I am referring to the fact that Arabs have to know you well before they will tell you what they really think. I have true Arab friends who are not afraid to tell me to my face when I am not on the mark. You need to do a little research... and perhaps even really see me dance... before you start getting critical of what I am doing. Frankly, I find your totally unfounded implications about my dancing to be ridiculous. When it comes to criticizing my dancing sight unseen, it's not only arrogant; it's stupid.
When it comes to the harm that is being done by all of the mislabeling of the different styles of dance, the dance is being hurt. Artists perhaps should not hurt each other, but they should also not hurt the dance they claim to love either. The dance was there before any of the dancers and it should be the priority. It needs protection from people who would call any darn thing they are doing by the name "belly dance"
If you can not stay on task and discuss the subject, then I will stop responding. I'm about sick of your snide little commentary on my personality when you have never even met me. I wnt you to find any personal remarks that I have made on this forum that were not warranted and in response to someone else's personal attacks. Pease state the forum, the # of the post and the exact quote so that I can see what you are talking about. So far you want exact info and citations from me, but have never given me one solid piece of info back. As I said, you don't even know what it is you are blaming me for.
A'isha Azar

sedoniaraqs

Well, I for one don't feel the balm.

Jeffrey has done nothing but misconstrue many posts that A'isha and Tarik have written (seemingly on purpose, but I won' t go there).

Once again, I have read this whole thread and I fail to see where either A'isha or Tarik have insulted or been rude to anyone. Rather, people seem to take offense where they want, usually when someone suggests the concept of cultural parameters with respect to ethnic dance.

And by the way. A'isha danced in one of my shows last year and she BROUGHT DOWN THE HOUSE. The Arabs in the audience went crazy!

Sedonia

sedoniaraqs

By the way, Tarik, your YouTube clips are fabulous!

Aisha Azar

Dear Sedonia,
I just want to offer heartfelt thanks for your continued support. You are one of the few dancers on this forum who know me personally and have seen me dance.
For those of you who do not know Sedonia, she teaches plant biology at the University of Southern Illinois, Carbondale. She is also a wonderful dancer! We met in Salt Lake City Utah, quite a few years ago, now. she teaches dance classes also and they would be well worth attending, if her students are any indication.
Regards,
A'isha

Jeffrey

Rocky is a warm and loving individual with a vaste knowledge of dance and the experience to back it up. She loves dance and doesn't ridicule others when their styles and forms differ from hers. I have seen some of her student showcases and one in particular when there was a spectacular dance by a young woman painted in silver and doing exagerated robotic "pops" to electric "techno" "Hip Hop" music. The music was not my taste, if you only explained the dance to me, I would have said that I probably wouldn't have liked it, but it was a "show stopper"!
Rocky has been around a long time and is as much a viable artist now as ever. She grows. She never has lost the understanding and the respect for the tradition that she came from, but she also understands that each generation is going to add something to it and even branch away from it. She may not in her heart actually even like it, but I think she understands. I believe that she is somebody that even you would call a bellydancer.
I have received countless private messages from dancers that have been and have felt insulted and hurt by what has been said here (and NO, I won't tell you from who because they are private messages). I can understand your passion and I feel that you are probably a very good person, but you are not aware that your posts are causing damage.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record (too late, I know) I am going to leave this thread right here.
Respectfully,
-Jeffrey