Bad News: EGYPT

Reen.Blom · 08-29-2008, 10:43 AM

Have anyone seen the movie "Belly Dancers of Cairo"... Just shocking!

What do you girls and guys think? Many dancers working as prostitutes after the shows.... etc.... I am soooo sad.......

Zorba · 08-29-2008, 03:39 PM

A fascinating documentary, although some of the guy's attitudes make me want to punch them!

Don't miss the performance segments, especially Rabab's Shemadan.

Nabila Nazem · 08-29-2008, 03:50 PM

Many performers around the world, especially female, are regarded in this manner to some degree. Show business in general was considered "low class" here in "the West" until recently, no matter what kind of art it was.

Aisha Azar · 08-29-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reen.Blom

Have anyone seen the movie "Belly Dancers of Cairo"... Just shocking!

What do you girls and guys think? Many dancers working as prostitutes after the shows.... etc.... I am soooo sad.......

Dear Reen,
........ You seem rather shocked by this. Is it new information to you? This kind of thing has been going on since before belly dance even existed. I suggest you read Gustav Flaubert's book of his travels in Egypt. Also, as someone pointed out, it has also been traditionally true in the U.S. that many entertainers earned a better living if they were also prostitutes. This tradition actually carries on today in he form of the "casting couch" !
Regards,
A'isha

Reen.Blom · 08-29-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisha Azar

Dear Reen,
........ You seem rather shocked by this. Is it new information to you? This kind of thing has been going on since before belly dance even existed. I suggest you read Gustav Flaubert's book of his travels in Egypt. Also, as someone pointed out, it has also been traditionally true in the U.S. that many entertainers earned a better living if they were also prostitutes. This tradition actually carries on today in he form of the "casting couch" !
Regards,
A'isha

Dear Aisha,
I do confess I had no clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But it is different in the Us and other Western countries with 'entertainers'... because those women have much less rights! So when their husbands and their families turn aways from them, they basicly have no other choice!!! Gosh they even threaten to kill them to save the honour of the family....

Most information we get is just sugar coated fairy tale... I always thought belly dance has a "bad name" cos well as we are told a women dancing publicly is nono in this culture... what a load of LIES! It is not THe REASON. Gosh I AM shocked. The real reason is that "real" belly dancers there have 2 businesess, and rather use belly dance to advertise other 'services'....

I suppose it is different in tourist big places, etc, but those women cast away by society and family with low or no income are basicly forced to do that by circumstances....

This is so heartbreaking.

I mean look at their clothes, they look cheap and trashy.... and here we are debateing every day and talking about respect to the artform....

It it does look like the costuming got worse recently.... well suppose it just reflects the other side of the 'business'???

I really was naive to think that BD is not popular there cos of religious or other reasons. NOW i see WHY.

Gosh that guy who's face was not shown... you know what? I totally agree with him. I would not want my daughter or sister to be a bellydancer THERE.
He also mentioned that he enjoyed the old dancers like Samia... well I guess Samia looks "conservative" compared to modern celebs....

And the worst thing is that high end dancers like Dina do not help... For goodness sake, why they have to dress so trashy???? I know she wants to shock and chellenge... Sex sells?

Yeah.... rrrrright.... Talk about "art of bellydance".... I am sick....

kayshier · 08-29-2008, 06:25 PM

^^^
you sound disillusioned. it is an art, it is up to us to have it respected as such.
no matter what societal mores might want to impose on dance.

Aisha Azar · 08-29-2008, 07:39 PM

Dear Reen,

I am sorry that you have been so disillusioned. It seems unfair somehow that you want so much more for the dance and that it can not really change anything.
I am not really bothered by the reputation of he dance and I also know that those dancers who reach a state of financial comfort also reach a state of political and social freedom that is rarely enjoyed by women ANYWHERE in the world. Also, I have to say that most of the belly dancers form Egypt that I have met are rather tough women who can put just about anyone in their place if they have to.
And, the women who work in sleazy strip joints here in the west have just about as much protection from family and society as do the women in Middle Eastern countries who are poor and make their living as dancers/prostitutes. They also often have no choice, no skills, no organizations that care to help them, no support system. Let us look in our own back yards before pointing fingers at others.
Regards,
A'isha

Reen.Blom · 08-29-2008, 08:37 PM

Gosh its not about the DANCE!

Dance is PERFECT!!!!

It is how it is represented in Egypt, and how many people get disillusioned when it is too late? I mean you never see that on internet, I suppese everyone who worked in Egypt just keeps it quiet?

I understand it sucks to say that's it is the reality there.... But also many girls dream to work in Egypt not knowing what it is like.... and Others are just too scared to lose their business trading , etc with Egypt so they also keep quiet?

And I suppose in the West one can get single mom child allowance, or medical help... and well bare nessesities are denied there...

But THAT is not the point.... but that lack of information??????

And I am truely saddened that the "creators" of the dance really make disgrace out of it....

Reen.Blom · 08-29-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayshier

^^^
you sound disillusioned. it is an art, it is up to us to have it respected as such.
no matter what societal mores might want to impose on dance.

If that was about society..... then ok.... but it is not... it IS sleasy and cheap in most places in Egypt. That's the sad truth.....,

Aisha Azar · 08-29-2008, 09:49 PM

Dear Reen,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reen.Blom

Gosh its not about the DANCE!
Dance is PERFECT!!!!

As a person outside the cultures of origin, you have that view of it. I love the dance and so do some, though not all of the dancers in countries of origin. to some it is, as stated in Von Nieukirk's book, "A Trade like any other". But they do not kid themselves that it is an uplifted and lofty minded dance form, either. They understand and accept the sexual connotations and they accept them. Even Lucy in her interview with National Geographic some years ago stated that. When asked about being a Muslimah and dancing she did not say it was a lovely, nonsexual dance from. she instead said that "God is forgiving".

Quote:

It is how it is represented in Egypt, and how many people get disillusioned when it is too late?

And if we get disillusioned it says less about the culture and dance of Egypt and more about how we often do not want to look at the whole truth of the dance, but are in a position of luxury where we can pick and choose what appeals to us. (Though I would hope that we would instead really LOOK at the entire picture on the cultural level and make our decisions based on that. Remember also that rich dancers are in a way better position than poor ones and most of us would qualify as rich in comparison to the poor there.

Quote:

I mean you never see that on internet, I suppese everyone who worked in Egypt just keeps it quiet?

I have seen a lot of sleazy videaos coming out fo the Middle East, and I have not thought of this side of things as hidden. Reen, I think it is just new to you, and still pretty painful....

Quote:

I understand it sucks to say that's it is the reality there.... But also many girls dream to work in Egypt not knowing what it is like.... and Others are just too scared to lose their business trading , etc with Egypt so they also keep quiet?

Well, I think the video that is the subject of this thread proves that they do not keep it quiet. It has been out for some time and is only one example of the publicizing of these issues.

Quote:

And I suppose in the West one can get single mom child allowance, or medical help... and well bare nessesities are denied there...

Many of the women here can not qualify for help either.... My daughter is one example of a single mom who can not get her medical needs met, for example.

Quote:

But THAT is not the point.... but that lack of information??????

I have not noticed any lack of information. I have been aware of these things since shortly after I started dancing.

Quote:

And I am truely saddened that the "creators" of the dance really make disgrace out of it....

One man's disgrace is another's entertainment. In many cases, it is seen with the same casual observance that one would give a girl who strips down to g-string and pasties at a birthday party here in the west. Many dancers do not hook as well, though some do...... just like here in the west. the creators of the dance have the right to define the dance in any way they want, and I am sure that Badai Masabni and others were well aware of what they were doing in context of the greater culture, and decided to thumb their noses at it, just as many dancers decide to do now. Those who have a choice, that is. The others are very much just like here with regards to women who have no choice but to take sleazy jobs because they have no money, no support system, no education and no chance at a better future.
Regards,
A'isha

08-29-2008, 10:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
Reen.Blom V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Between Heaven and Earth Posts: 2,262	Bad News: EGYPT Have anyone seen the movie "Belly Dancers of Cairo"... Just shocking! What do you girls and guys think? Many dancers working as prostitutes after the shows.... etc.... I am soooo sad....... __________________ Join WORLD BELLY DANCE DAY! www.worldbellydanceday.com

08-29-2008, 03:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	A fascinating documentary, although some of the guy's attitudes make me want to punch them! Don't miss the performance segments, especially Rabab's Shemadan. __________________ -Zorba "The Veiled Male" http://www.doubleveil.net "There is nothing sadder than a veil, that is for sale."

08-29-2008, 07:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,462	Dance Dear Reen, I am sorry that you have been so disillusioned. It seems unfair somehow that you want so much more for the dance and that it can not really change anything. I am not really bothered by the reputation of he dance and I also know that those dancers who reach a state of financial comfort also reach a state of political and social freedom that is rarely enjoyed by women ANYWHERE in the world. Also, I have to say that most of the belly dancers form Egypt that I have met are rather tough women who can put just about anyone in their place if they have to. And, the women who work in sleazy strip joints here in the west have just about as much protection from family and society as do the women in Middle Eastern countries who are poor and make their living as dancers/prostitutes. They also often have no choice, no skills, no organizations that care to help them, no support system. Let us look in our own back yards before pointing fingers at others. Regards, A'isha

08-29-2008, 08:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
Reen.Blom V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Between Heaven and Earth Posts: 2,262	Gosh its not about the DANCE! Dance is PERFECT!!!! It is how it is represented in Egypt, and how many people get disillusioned when it is too late? I mean you never see that on internet, I suppese everyone who worked in Egypt just keeps it quiet? I understand it sucks to say that's it is the reality there.... But also many girls dream to work in Egypt not knowing what it is like.... and Others are just too scared to lose their business trading , etc with Egypt so they also keep quiet? And I suppose in the West one can get single mom child allowance, or medical help... and well bare nessesities are denied there... But THAT is not the point.... but that lack of information?????? And I am truely saddened that the "creators" of the dance really make disgrace out of it.... __________________ Join WORLD BELLY DANCE DAY! www.worldbellydanceday.com

08-29-2008, 03:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nabila Nazem Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4	Many performers around the world, especially female, are regarded in this manner to some degree. Show business in general was considered "low class" here in "the West" until recently, no matter what kind of art it was.

08-29-2008, 06:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
kayshier Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 161	^^^ you sound disillusioned. it is an art, it is up to us to have it respected as such. no matter what societal mores might want to impose on dance.