Aziyade

There have been a couple of threads on Bhuz about "dangerous" movements, and various people have chimed in with their personal (or their teacher's personal) warnings, but what have you all found to be REALLY dangerous or detrimental in some way? Rather than what you've HEARD. ??

I'm wondering if a lot of this confusion isn't because we're using an ineffective vocabulary. I hear people warn against "tucking" the pelvis, or "flattening" the low back -- I heard those same instructions for 20 years in ballet class, and I can still walk. Perhaps it's because ballet teachers know you don't COMPLETELY flatten the low back's curve, and you don't tilt the pelvis forward to "tuck" it. ?? Is it the case that there are a lot of newish belly dance teachers who are using terms like this and don't really understand them?

A couple of big-league teachers I respect claim that "pumping" the knees back and forth (a la the "Egyptian" shimmy) is dangerous. Since this is a natural movement of the knee joint, the only way I can see that this is dangerous is if it's done improperly, over extending the back of the knee so the knee joint is hyper-extended.

The vertical hip figure 8/infinity movements are now "dangerous" to the low back. Since when? Tick-tock hip downs are dangerous. Since when? I can see it if you have extremely poor posture, and let the pelvis drop forward and arch the low back, but for a normal PROPER upright posture/alignment, I don't feel any pull in the low back AT ALL while doing these movements.

Now of course I realize that everyone has some sort of musculo-skeletal issue that makes them have to adjust one movement or another to fit their structure. And I'm not talking about crazy zar-inspired head rolls, or flopping on the floor in a Turkish drop. I'm talking about basic belly dance movements that people are calling "dangerous."

I spent a year in modern dance class with a visiting instructor whose format insisted on having us in "neutral" position with our knees more than slightly bent. I don't know if I developed any "imbalances" or not, but I think it strengthened my quads. Ballet neutral was always "STRAIGHT LEGS!" (but not hyper-extended) but rhythm tap neutral was always really strongly bent knees (more so than in belly dance).

I'm just ranting. Any thoughts? Is it just that we have too many inexperiences teachers running around who don't really know what "tucking" means? My ballet teachers were all very physical -- poking us and physically moving us into the positions we were supposed to have. Is that a lost art? Or am I just from the old school who thinks it's all okay and I'm lucky that all my joints haven't just imploded with all this bad training?

Shanazel

Well, I am from the poking and physically positioning students school of teaching, though I always ask before laying my hands on anyone. As for dangerous movements among basic belly dance vocabulary, I can't think of any. I don't think backbends are very good for most people, so I teach an AmCab backbend which depends on the bend in one's knees and not an extreme arch of the back. Looks pretty and doesn't hurt, though it is not as dramatic as a real backbend.

Aisha Azar

Dear Aziyade,
I think that in authentic ethnic belly dance, we do not see very many mvoements that are dangerous, though natural wear and tear on the joints does eventually lead to some arthritis, just as it would in any repetitive stress job or situation.
I think that the Rachel Brice style backbend might be pretty dangerous after awhile, and anything where dancers literally throw themselves on the floor is kind of dangerous.
The natural tuck that creates good posture is not dangerous in any way and in fact is good for people. I also agree with you that the knee things is not dangerous. I think that one must be in a decently loose condition to do Maya types of movement and the same for any slide movements so that they do not pull a muscle, but beyond that.... dangerous?? I don't think so either.
I might be a case in point. I have been dancing for 34 years. (Celebrated my anniversary on July 1st!!) I have no problems except for some arthritis in my iliac joint on the right side from so much Basic Egyptian movement, and some arthritis in the place where my heels and feet connect, most likely from that many years of standing around with my heels lifted slightly off the ground. I also now have problems with the inside or my right knee after prolonged teaching of Ghawazi class or rehearsal. I am 55 years old and I think this is all just occupational hazard. My husband swings a hammer for prolonged periods of time and he occasionally develops bursitis in his right elbow... same thing, different job!
Regards,
A'isha

karena

BD is practically prescribed for my by my Osteopath. She was amazed at how much better my back was once I started BD, and tells me off if I've not been doing enough dancing (I know, great eh! Maybe one day lessons will be free on the NHS ) So, being dangerous. What tosh!

(Except of course doing things wrong, that could be dangerous but that aint BD)

Now lots of flying sticks wielded by beginners in a small spaces, that's dangerous I am just past the look of fear stage

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jenc

I do have probs with egyptian shimmy - because my knee is damaged so it seem to overextend without my realising. I know that this is damaging because my knee swells the next day. varuios other movements have temporarily caused pain or stiffnes next day, but this has always been sorted by making sure tht I am doing movement correctly, or that my muscles have been fit enough. there seems to be a point where flexibility improves but supporting muscles need to catch up.
apart from that my health seems to be improving

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

So far in my short 6.5 yearof dancing, I can't recall any basic movement that is dangerous in a general sense. Dangerous in this sense , is something that threatens life and limb. Harmful, may be defined as anything that can lead to chronic pain or misalignment. Any move can be dangerous or harmful, if a dancer chooses not to pay heed to their own bodies.

Moving beyond natural ROM

Failure to take into account previous injuries or surgeries i.e hip replacements, rotator cuff tears pulled muscles etc.

Poor proprioception as one moves through space leading to falls.

Inner ear/sinus infections infections that create vertigo..watch out for those spins!

Too mnay new students want to start doing the advanced stuff before learning safe basic movements..a sure path to injury.
Yasmine

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Kashmir

I wouldn't teach these to a raw beginner - unless I was certain they could hold posture and alignment safely. Which is why teachers structure the sequence movements get taught. Another local teacher and myself spent a long time looking at movements and checking with Sports Physios and "the literature" to come up with a syllabus that builds strength and flexibility so students eventually can do these safely. (Which is why in my Dangerous Moves there are headings tagged "with care" rather than plain out "avoid" - and the references are cited)

jenc

Well speaking as someone whose first teacher refused to discuss posture on the grounds that beginners don't want technique they only want to learn a dance, I wonder if there should be a safety in ME dance qualification, if not full teaching programme.

adiemus

As a pain management clinical lecturer, with lots of knowledge about low back pain, I can tell you the only really 'dangerous' movements are backdrops (mainly because you can fall right over!), otherwise most of the movements are quite natural. I personally have developed an ilio-tibial band pain, but this is because I over-extended at the hip (pushed too far out to the side). Otherwise I think most of the movements are helpful for low back pain, certainly strengthening the 'core' is helpful - and it's a way to keep moving!!! Tendonitis may be a possibility, but provided you are reasonable with the way you use your body the worst you'll get are a few muscle aches and pains as you train.
BTW if you are going to get arthritis (osteoarthritis) you can blame genetics, not your activities...

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Ankebuzz

Well, I live in South Africa, and my teacher is part of an organistation called BDASA (Belly dancing association of South Africa).

We actually have a syllabus with exams if we want to do them. I am doing grade one in August. There are 7 Amateur grades, 7 Teacher grades and more.

Quick Guide - Welcome to The Belly Dancing Association of South Africa

That's the URL for the page where all is explained. Does this exist anywhere else?

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