Caroline_afifi

We have touched on this and made various references to this subject in other threads, but what sort of issues do you consider to be detrimental to Middle Eastern dance? and why...

catwomyn

One thing I see happening is oriental dance being diluted by fusions until it is no longer oriental dance. The resulting world fusion dance may be beautiful and valid as its own form but it is NOT oriental dance, IMHO.

Once you take away the middle eastern music, use a movement vocabulary that is half indian/jazz/burlesque, and add the western concept of choreography, rather than structured improvisation, the dance becomes something else.

deanna

IMHO, if you take the "oriental" out of oriental dance, it does become something different. Not better, not worse -- just different. Perhaps there should be a new vocabulary for it. Seems to me "belly dance" has become a more general term that transcends Middle Eastern dance, and that now that form is just one aspect, along with all the fusion and modern varieties.

But maybe there is (or should be) a more appropriate term?

Mya

As far as i'm concerned it already exists - fusion - but many people do not like to acknowledge fusion for what it is because what sells is the word bellydance not the word fusion.

I take for instance the main bellydance company down here - recently they and other people started posting youtube vidoes of their performances but they've gotten alot of criticism for doing things like dancing with wings of isis to indian music because "that's what the clients want" and still calling it bellydance rather than calling it fusion - or doing samba shimmies to a whole song and sticking in 2 hip lifts and calling it bellydance.

I agree that it is no better or worse than oriental but alot of people view fusion as being lesser because people want to believe that they're being sold something exotic and "authentic".

IMO the threat to the dance is that people will never be able to develop the artistic integrity, or overcome their selfish motives or reconcile business with art in such a way as to do the dance justice and as such the line will become blurrier and blurrier as to what oriental dance is.

That's just my take on it of course.

adiemus

in a word: fusion.
To expand on that: fusion that calls itself 'bellydance fusion' as everyone else has said above.
This loses the variety of different styles that are part of MED/bellydance, and so we end up with a middle of the road bland sort of dance that leaves out so much.
I'd love to see more of the really early versions of folkloric styles that are lost now like haggala, sai'di, melaya, khalegi, ghawazee and so on.
I think the music style changes are also a real risk - most of the more complex rhythms are being lost out to the simple 4/4 timing of the modern shaabi, which is fine - but we do lose those incredibly intricate beats that make the music and dance so unique.
Another part of the musical threat is the loss of the structure of middle eastern music - the call and response, not having harmonies (just building on melodies) - this means that the music is more palatable to european/western ears, but lacks the layers that is characteristic of middle eastern music.

Oh yes, and the loss of the freedom to dance in Egypt itself is a threat - without egyptians dancing, the authenticity of what people like me learn third hand is very diluted.

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deanna

I think classic Middle Eastern dance and music will be increasingly diluted if there continues to be no differentiation between what is classic MED and the newer styles coming out. Today, if someone says they're going to see a belly dance show, you really don't know what you're going to see. It could be tribal, it could be burlesque, it could be geisha lookalikes, it could be Carmen-lookalikes, it could be ladies dressed up as pirates.
All of these might be very entertaining, but if you're expecting something Middle Eastern, you'll be disappointed -- or at least confused. And the fact is, there seems to be more interest among new dancers for these fusion forms than there is for the traditional styles. Belly dance has grown beyond its original form, and that's not a bad thing. For me, it just means that all belly dance isn't necessarily Middle Eastern dance anymore. It's grown into something bigger and more encompassing.

Zorba

I do agree about fusion - not that some of it isn't beautiful. But as someone who is currently doing some "instructor shopping", its hard to find someone who actually teaches BELLY DANCE as opposed to one kind of fusion or another. As an aside, the ones who *do* teach Belly Dance often teach Tribal or Folkloric - and I'm looking for Cabaret teachers!

The other "deadly sin" as far as I'm concerned is the increasing amounts of SLEAZE that is being promulgated as "Belly Dance" - a lot of it from the SF bay area, then it trickles down from there. Having pole dancers or "coffee table" dancing at Belly Dance events, and other flirtations with sleaze causes teachers to LOSE STUDENTS and the dance in general is hurt as the enthusiast base, as well as the audience base, shrinks drastically. We all have enough problems with perceptions of Belly Dance without "help" like this...

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khanjar

In the west, yes, fusion.

I am classless at the moment, I do have an option to go to a class which is a fusion class where they state it is a mix of flamenco, asian and ME. Now I feel as I am a beginner, I should concentrate on ME for that is where I started and doing something which involves other cultural dances might not be a good idea.

My interest is ME, I should stick with that for now, so I will hold off until the fall when classes start again. I am only pleased that via these forums I came to know the difference before immersing myself in a class which I might have believed is authentic belly dance, when it might be anything other.

But this is where I see a problem, bellydance is the umbrella term, but that could mean anything, it could even just be the style of dress, but to music which bears no relation to the area of origin.

Music, I have the 'Beginners Guide to Bellydance' 3 cd set, they comprise of disc 1; traditional and cabaret, disc two; drum solo and tribal and finally disc three; fusion. I love disc one, disc two comes second and disc three I have to be in a strange mood to play, as a lot of it, I cannot see where ME might be performed, especially the industrial and gothic tunes. I love ME music, and the multi layers, fusion is just popular music, not for me.

So in the west, perhaps fusion should part company from ME even to just stop confusion to those of us who are new, perhaps for the sake of performance, not call the dance 'belly dance', which is demeaning, but call the separate arts ME dance and fusion, as it is, but publicize it as so. That way those who want the real thing can choose ME, those that just want to dance ME style but with other influences can choose fusion.

The west I see as the catalyst, we get it right over here, then the ME itself might change it's mood.

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Caroline_afifi

The issue of fusion for me is the removal of MED to the point of being totally removed. I saw some performances a few months back and was told it was fushion but it really wasnt. For me, fusion is a blend. If someone does Flamenco style dance wearing spanish style costumes dancing to Spanish music then were is the fusion? do people really not know what is meant by fusion?
do we have a common definition of fusion?

I really do not like it when people make up what they think belly dance is about without doing their homework.
It annoys me that people often take what they want and invent the rest.
I often wonder how many people really love this dance or just love the fantasy and idea of it.

Selling out in the pursuit of money will also make this dance unrecognisable.

The problem is, if we all stuck to what we thought was real Egyptian dance what would that mean? would we all be clones of Fifi, Dina and Randa et al?
Is the true art just copying the well knowns and the great unknowns?
who do we depend on to keep the art form moving and developing, or is this dance stuck forever in a certain era?

Perhaps that is going a bit deep, but I am not sure that some of the most well known leaders in this dance are taking it in a productive and artistic direction. I dont believe that it actually has a direction other than business these days.
I was sat with Farida Fahmy at her home in Cairo a few years back having this very discussion. She was very afraid of where it was all going and who was leading it there etc. even the current Cairo contemporaries cant agree on what the way forward is so what chance do the rest of us have.
It is easier to point out what is wrong but looking at solutions is another matter and no one can agree on who is best to do this.

lizaj

I am not sure that the danger comes from fusion here in the west as long as the dancers fusing are skilful. Dance evolves and that is appreciated by aficienados and better informed general audiences a like.
In the ME, the danger surely is from increasing fundamentalism that may close down or off the venues to dancers or from those who consider belly dance as old fashioned or irrelevent.
The danger might lie in the perception of the GP. That it has something to do with Burlesque,Stripping or Lap dancing. No doubt belly dance aims to be plesureable and appeal as a sensual experience but constant exposure to the sleazy side denies belly dance a place as an artistic venture.
Also that belly dance is somehow the domain of the hippy-dippy goddess dancing naked in the forest brigade will exclude the dance from mainstream entertainment.
What other dangers- poor teaching of the dance by untrained bedroom boppers especially those who advertise themselves as something they are not,teaching by those who do not support promsiing dancers by encouraging then to experience as much teaching and performance from others, teachers who don't carry on learning. After all we have never had so many opportunities , say here in the UK, to study with good dancers from well informed British dancers and dancers and teachers from over there.
mmmmm the promotion by themselves or others of dancers who are deluded as to their ability.