what do you consider to be damaging to the future of Middle Eastern dance? - Page 4

Makeda Maysa · 07-10-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisha Azar

* We seem reluctant to really praise other dancers, and there are those who really, REALLY deserve to be out there a lot more than they are. People seem to confuse having a big name with having a quality product to offer and that is simply not the case.

I just want to co-sign this point, A'isha. I think it is imperative that we not be so worried about our own bottom line and/or jealous for space in the community that we fail to see each other's good works and offer praise where praise is due. It is gratifying beyond measure to know that one has the support and respect of fellow dancers and I think it's important to spread the love around as much as possible, when it's warranted.

Makeda Maysa · 07-10-2008, 02:22 PM

Oh, and also? There are quite a few big name dancers who, for lack of a better word, "suck". Making the biggest noise does not = having the most talent. I have been quite disappointed by the "stars" more than I care to remember.

Shanazel · 07-10-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Yes American cabaret is fusion of many different styles of Oriental dance that was originally taught by first generationArabic/Greek/Turkish/Armenian/Persian immigrants to America. It is not a fusion of Western style dances (i.e jazz, modern, hip-hop,ballet) nor a fusion of music and movements from multiple distinct cultures (i.e Indian dance, with samba and few hip drops thrown in). Of course this is my opinion, and as such it is subject to scrutiny.

Since Yasmine said essentially what I was going to say, I'll just repost her comment for emphasis.

Because it is a fusion of middle eastern styles, good AmCab has a distinct middle eastern flavor and remains identifiably belly dance while fusions that incorporate everything from Indian bindis and Celtic bagpipes do not.

The biggest danger to the furture of MED? I think good belly dance will survive despite the junk trying to pass as MED, but poor performances that concentrate on a pretty girl, gorgeous costuming, and eye catching gimmick moves rather than solid dancing are my personal pet peeve.

Zorba · 07-10-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

Fundamental religious attacks on the dance in the countries of origin. The suppression of creative spirit will have much wider negative impact than bad fusion....because without it how would we tell the difference?

Not just this, but add fundamentalism in the western world also - I've been the direct target of same. Its all the same mindset - one that I see as the "left hand of darkness" or the "claw of Mordor".

Caroline_afifi · 07-10-2008, 03:07 PM

I suppose it is different around the world but I hear of dancers being widely praised all of the time.
Sometimes I wonder if it is just because the name is well known and people think there is something wrong with them if they dont like it.
I think once people reach a certain stage in the pecking order they no longer hear criticism as no one dare give it. I have seen and heard plenty of pussy footing and understand exactly why. It is often easier to critcise the lesser known dancer with less connections.
A dance has to really offend me in some way not to like it. If I dont like the dance it does not mean I dont like the dancer and vice versa. I can get bored but it does not make me dislike them.
Perhaps people feel insecure about another dancers popularity and want to pick holes in them? I have known a few teachers/organisers whom have become victim of students etc. it is often the nature of the beast.
Anyone who has had any success as as a teacher/performer has had casulaties along the way.

The issue about fusion is a complex one, it is a bit like, eat too many cream cakes and you get fat. Cream cakes are nice but too much...
What to do?
I only teach straight Egyptian dance but I have dabbled with other dances in the past. I have choreographed pieces recently with moves which are not strictly Egyptian. The group are already dancers who know the difference and to me this is what counts. The music is ME, so are the costumes and the moves are very modern.

I dont want to see fusion disappear, I just want to see some balance and the scales have certainly tipped.

Zorba · 07-10-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makeda Maysa

Oh, and also? There are quite a few big name dancers who, for lack of a better word, "suck". Making the biggest noise does not = having the most talent. I have been quite disappointed by the "stars" more than I care to remember.

Yes there certainly is. And not all of these sucky-but-noisy dancers are female either (no-one here, unless you count me of course - I'm hardly a "big name", but I'm sucky and noisy and I know it!

)! Not to mention big name dancers who should know better, and can certainly dance better, but who nevertheless promulgate sleazy dancing and costuming.

Then there's the stars who are stars in the best sense of the term - I always use Fahtiem as an example. Not only is she a wonderful performer and instructor; but just as important if not more so - she's a class act on stage and off. Gracious, cheerful, and never, EVER dodgy or sleazy dancing, costuming or behavior. A role model of all of us, and there are plenty of others like her; some well known and some not. Thank Goddess for these wonderful people.

Caroline_afifi · 07-10-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

The least damaging..overpriced costumes...c'mon who needs a Sahar Okasha costume that sells for grand!! Ok my personal rant

I'm going to bed
Yasmine

That price would damage my bank account!!

I dont think we should ever underestimate the danger in costumes (sounds scary)
I used to believe that a bad costume just brought the dancer down but it can bring down everyone around them too and have a long and wider impact. Ever been in the same show as someones who's nipples keep popping out? do you think the audience will remember the moving Um Kulthoum piece?

A large part of the attraction to this dance is the dressing up, remove this and you will remove half of the worlds students and Pro's.
How many dancers do you know who will perform without a costume or make-up? the mind boggles.

Aisha Azar · 07-10-2008, 03:29 PM

Dear Caroline,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

I suppose it is different around the world but I hear of dancers being widely praised all of the time.
Sometimes I wonder if it is just because the name is well known and people think there is something wrong with them if they dont like it.
I think once people reach a certain stage in the pecking order they no longer hear criticism as no one dare give it. I have seen and heard plenty of pussy footing and understand exactly why. It is often easier to critcise the lesser known dancer with less connections.

Truer words were never spoken!!!!! This is what I mean. You hear plenty of praise for well known, ultra marketed dancers who often do not deserve it. On the other hand, there are dancers who are perhaps not as well known, but
ARE somewhat known who actually give a better class and do a far better show. We are all afraid to name names except in private when it comes to tearing down the institutions of the dance, but we could at least get the names out there of people who are great at what they do. They even usually charge less and give a lot better, less crowded class!! These are the people my dance company tries to support by sponsoring them. So far we have not gone wrong and the shows and workshops have been wonderful!! We have also not had a prima donna in the bunch.

Quote:

A dance has to really offend me in some way not to like it. If I dont like the dance it does not mean I dont like the dancer and vice versa. I can get bored but it does not make me dislike them.

A dance only has to be mislabeled for me to be unhappy. This right away is the beginning of the break down of integrity in the dance form. I am aware that I have a reputation for being extremist, but we HAVE to start looking at the lowest denominators for us to begin to make improvements.

Quote:

Perhaps people feel insecure about another dancers popularity and want to pick holes in them? I have known a few teachers/organisers whom have become victim of students etc. it is often the nature of the beast.
Anyone who has had any success as as a teacher/performer has had casulaties along the way.

If a dancer is awful, I have no problem saying so. I DO have a problem with people not giving equal time to those dancers who make good contributions, but are not famous enough for people to sit up and take notice. Many people seem only to be impressed with whom they are told to be impressed by. They do not seem to have developed the eye for what is good or not good in the dance. They are impressed by the Pop-Lock kings and queens and see nothing beyond the radical movement that these people have developed.

Quote:

The issue about fusion is a complex one, it is a bit like, eat too many cream cakes and you get fat. Cream cakes are nice but too much...
What to do?

The issue is really about good and bad fusion, I think as opposed to anything else. As Helen Erikson once said. "I love good fusion. I have seen it three times"!!

Quote:

I only teach straight Egyptian dance but I have dabbled with other dances in the past. I have choreographed pieces recently with moves which are not strictly Egyptian. The group are already dancers who know the difference and to me this is what counts. The music is ME, so are the costumes and the moves are very modern.

Same here......

Quote:

I dont want to see fusion disappear, I just want to see some balance and the scales have certainly tipped.

I agree.... and don't imply it is Middle Eastern if it is not. This includes American Oriental, which has a basic movement vocabulary of belly dance, but a completely different way of utilizing those movements, along with its own unique essence, ...strictly western. This is one of the most beautiful dances ever created by westerners, but it is not Middle Eastern on any level aside from a few basic movements that can be seen in many other dances that are not Middle Eastern as well.

Regards,
A'isha

Lydia dubai · 07-10-2008, 05:08 PM

I agree with yasmina her post aswell...and also what aisha said big names are not always ,,that,, I also want to ad this, people that want to learn more must take the trouble to realy try to find out what they are learning and who is teaching if that person realy has experiance has the know how ,not just o well she is teaching there so i geuss its ok...i know dancers that are teaching in a big ,big festival no need to write the name...but those same dancers are banned in the gulf for prostitution more than ones ...and they are teaching..i think its the responsability from dancers that teach... to teach aswell how to behave how to cary yourself off stage...and stay away from scandals...that will help the dance...because specialy the famous big names this is what people are looking at,so they have the
abillty to change things because people will take it from them if they say and
do... people will follow...i am sure if fiffi abdo says please dont drink before going on stage otherwise your balance will be efected, many people will listen..i hade dancers laughing at me because i dont drink alcohol,they say they need it otherwise they are not ,,looze ,,on stage...so if the big names would join hands they can do a lot of things to realy make this art come back in a biiig way and make people aware it can be differant and there is still a big future for this art...not just making money,because that is way most are in it... have a nice weekend all....

Farasha Hanem · 07-11-2008, 04:10 AM

Ohhhh, I am SOangry!!!

I tried posting just a few moments ago, and when I hit "Post Reply," the site told me I wasn't logged in, and I AM!!! I have the memory of a goldfish (3 seconds), and I'll NEVER be able to remember everything I said!

Ohhhhh, I hate, HATE computers, why do I sell them?

I'm sorry for the rant, everyone; it's almost my monthly "I hate the whole world, ESPECIALLY electronics" week, so I'm feeling a bit crabby.

Anyway, I tried to quote lizaj's last post on page one, because she brought up the very concerns that I have. I was also going to say how we all now live in a global society, and how our cultures have influenced each other, blah, blah, but now I'm so mad at this computer that my intelligence has temporarily went out the window.

I need a time out; maybe I can validate my opinions when I've cooled off. Sorry, everyone.

Wait...did I just accuse myself of having intelligence? oO; lol

07-10-2008, 02:22 PM	#32 (permalink)
Makeda Maysa Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 234	Oh, and also? There are quite a few big name dancers who, for lack of a better word, "suck". Making the biggest noise does not = having the most talent. I have been quite disappointed by the "stars" more than I care to remember. __________________ The Niraja Dance Company www.thendc.net

07-11-2008, 04:10 AM	#40 (permalink)
Farasha Hanem Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In the heartland of the USA Posts: 597	What is going on with the Internet?!? Ohhhh, I am SOangry!!! I tried posting just a few moments ago, and when I hit "Post Reply," the site told me I wasn't logged in, and I AM!!! I have the memory of a goldfish (3 seconds), and I'll NEVER be able to remember everything I said! Ohhhhh, I hate, HATE computers, why do I sell them? I'm sorry for the rant, everyone; it's almost my monthly "I hate the whole world, ESPECIALLY electronics" week, so I'm feeling a bit crabby. Anyway, I tried to quote lizaj's last post on page one, because she brought up the very concerns that I have. I was also going to say how we all now live in a global society, and how our cultures have influenced each other, blah, blah, but now I'm so mad at this computer that my intelligence has temporarily went out the window. I need a time out; maybe I can validate my opinions when I've cooled off. Sorry, everyone. Wait...did I just accuse myself of having intelligence? oO; lol Last edited by Farasha Hanem; 07-11-2008 at 04:14 AM.

07-10-2008, 03:07 PM	#35 (permalink)
Caroline_afifi V.I.P. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 1,285	I suppose it is different around the world but I hear of dancers being widely praised all of the time. Sometimes I wonder if it is just because the name is well known and people think there is something wrong with them if they dont like it. I think once people reach a certain stage in the pecking order they no longer hear criticism as no one dare give it. I have seen and heard plenty of pussy footing and understand exactly why. It is often easier to critcise the lesser known dancer with less connections. A dance has to really offend me in some way not to like it. If I dont like the dance it does not mean I dont like the dancer and vice versa. I can get bored but it does not make me dislike them. Perhaps people feel insecure about another dancers popularity and want to pick holes in them? I have known a few teachers/organisers whom have become victim of students etc. it is often the nature of the beast. Anyone who has had any success as as a teacher/performer has had casulaties along the way. The issue about fusion is a complex one, it is a bit like, eat too many cream cakes and you get fat. Cream cakes are nice but too much... What to do? I only teach straight Egyptian dance but I have dabbled with other dances in the past. I have choreographed pieces recently with moves which are not strictly Egyptian. The group are already dancers who know the difference and to me this is what counts. The music is ME, so are the costumes and the moves are very modern. I dont want to see fusion disappear, I just want to see some balance and the scales have certainly tipped.

07-10-2008, 05:08 PM	#39 (permalink)
Lydia dubai V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dubai United arab emirates Posts: 1,338	I agree with yasmina her post aswell...and also what aisha said big names are not always ,,that,, I also want to ad this, people that want to learn more must take the trouble to realy try to find out what they are learning and who is teaching if that person realy has experiance has the know how ,not just o well she is teaching there so i geuss its ok...i know dancers that are teaching in a big ,big festival no need to write the name...but those same dancers are banned in the gulf for prostitution more than ones ...and they are teaching..i think its the responsability from dancers that teach... to teach aswell how to behave how to cary yourself off stage...and stay away from scandals...that will help the dance...because specialy the famous big names this is what people are looking at,so they have the abillty to change things because people will take it from them if they say and do... people will follow...i am sure if fiffi abdo says please dont drink before going on stage otherwise your balance will be efected, many people will listen..i hade dancers laughing at me because i dont drink alcohol,they say they need it otherwise they are not ,,looze ,,on stage...so if the big names would join hands they can do a lot of things to realy make this art come back in a biiig way and make people aware it can be differant and there is still a big future for this art...not just making money,because that is way most are in it... have a nice weekend all....