what do you consider to be damaging to the future of Middle Eastern dance? - Page 27

Caroline_afifi · 07-22-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masrawy

"Be beautiful , the universe will turn beautiful in your eyes!"

Hi Caroline
This image of a Necklace I found at my jeweler shop in Cairo last march, it has been around my neck since then. I also used the Arabic script as my seigneurs in this forum. I had difficult time in making up the translation that dose not sound like i am full of it, the closest I came to was a french word amour propre. Regards~Mahmoud

This is a lovely little piece of jewellery with a beautiful message.
Does it mean unto others in terms of how you see the world and behave towards others?
(rather than reinforce your own fantasticness?)
Caroline

TribalDancer · 07-22-2008, 09:53 PM

I am glad to help clear that up, whatever chance I get.

Thanks for hearing me out.

It should be noted that Paulette teaches, and I completely concur, that tribal bellydance need not be performed. There is a path in this dance style in particular that does not lead to performing, and that does focus solely on the interpersonal connection and full focus inward on those you are dancing with. It is part of what the word "tribal" invokes--the group social dance aspect which draws from tribal peoples throughout time. The romantic idea of pick-up musicians jamming while your family, your tribe, gathers and dances together simply for the joy of it. In that case of course there is no audience that need be focused on. But if one wants to take their dance to the stage, there is another branch of study that must be pursued--another path that must be taken, which hones ones performance skills in tandem with your dance skills, the close group connection and nonverbal communication.

I am so sorry to tangent, but just wanted to round out that side-topic before moving on.

Aisha Azar · 07-22-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

I have noticed that is true of any art form. Artists wear their hearts on their sleeves and feel that their work IS them, so criticism of their work does tend to make them pretty nitzy. I know that for me belly dance is not something I do, it is who I am. For me, if someone I respect as a dancer tells me I need to fix something, I listen with all my heart. If some snotty upstart dancer of 6 months tell me I need to fix something, I'm likely to respond negatively. She most likely does not even know how to watch belly dance yet, never mind give anyone criticism in a snippy little voice like Miss belly dance expert of the entire known and unknown universe! ( I had that happen once. Her chin grazed the floor when she actually saw me perform later. It was VERY gratifying, and yes in this case, my response was purely unhealthy ego driven.
A healthy ego is a necessity for any creative endeavour. An unhealthy ego can be a problem.

Regards,
A'isha

I had a good little giggle at this but I know what you mean!
Sting once said that if someone didnt like one of his songs, it was like they said they didnt like his girlfriend.. well I detest Trudie Styler!

For me, belly dance is something I do, as I do lots of other things too and I prefer not to be identified as just a dancer.
My preference only of course.
I feel that after 15 years, I dont need to see it as 'me' but as part of me )albeit a majot part) I think it keeps me sane this way.

I enjoy discussing and talking about it as much as I enjoy dancing itself, but I also have other passions in life too. I find like with my other work, it is important to be able to switch off sometimes.

Dear Caroline,
For about 30 years of my life, belly dance was pretty much the only thing that I did and my only other interest was my family. Every class I took in college, all the music I bought, the clothing I wore and the costumes I made, the food I learned to cook, the people I hung around with; everything was geared toward making me a better dancer. I did spend a few years studying metaphysics as well, but it often tied into things like Sufism, etc. Even the job I took at the university as a costumer was really a learning experience to make me a more knowledgeable dancer about presentation of the dance on the theatrical stage. In the past couple of years I decided to broaden my horizons and so I took up knitting and pottery. I am probably going to be a decent knitter if I get the time to devote. My pottery is not great so I will skip that. I do consider myself to be a dancer and it is not something I just do, as is knitting. It is who I am.
I thought Sting and Trudy were married and had around five kids or some horrendous amount like that. (This from the eldest of 8!!). Well, I guess they can at least afford to take care of them all! I love Sting and think he is one of the most socially and globally aware people around today. One of my feminist girlfriends gave him the highest of compliments once and it did make me laugh. She said, and I quote, "He is so spiritually evolved, he's almost a woman" . Yah, whatever!!m but it WAS funny.
Regards,
A'isha

Kharis · 07-22-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

What do other people feel about self compliments and all the things discussed here? another topic or what?

I think being confident is one thing, being positive about oneself is a good thing too, but it's when you become self obsessed and talk about no one but yourself and then get all bitchy and petulant when somebody more beautiful/talented appears to threaten your little be-pedestalled bod that it becomes unacceptable. There are so many dancers who are genuinely so insecure that their insecurity manifests itself in the nastiest possible way. Modesty can still be coupled with a sense of worth.

khanjar · 07-23-2008, 12:54 AM

Isn't it odd that we all seem to need to be identified as what we are as a professional person, as if our professional selves is the most important thing we are. I can understand it is a matter of pride for some, an accomplishment or even a title of self worth. I pursued it for years, titles, but now I am rid of all that, what I do, is but a facet of me and I am multi faceted. If it is for someone to pin me down to a profession, my answer to that would simply be artist, as artist can mean many things, why limit oneself ?

Take dance, I have never been able to dance, not because I am totally inept, but because I have never allowed myself to express myself beyond what I could do as a professional person, a tradesman, be that mechanic, builder or soldier.

Dance is but an art form, and as an artist, it is a means of expression, for me at least, and so I wonder at all else here, be you professionals, that is, you dance or teach dance for a living, or you are artists and seek expression of the self through dance.

And of professional dancers and teachers, I am sure there is more to them than their profession.

We all come here because we have a common interest, but that interest is not the be all and end all, but a facet of ourselves.

Aisha Azar · 07-23-2008, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanjar

Isn't it odd that we all seem to need to be identified as what we are as a professional person, as if our professional selves is the most important thing we are. I can understand it is a matter of pride for some, an accomplishment or even a title of self worth. I pursued it for years, titles, but now I am rid of all that, what I do, is but a facet of me and I am multi faceted. If it is for someone to pin me down to a profession, my answer to that would simply be artist, as artist can mean many things, why limit oneself ?

Take dance, I have never been able to dance, not because I am totally inept, but because I have never allowed myself to express myself beyond what I could do as a professional person, a tradesman, be that mechanic, builder or soldier.

Dance is but an art form, and as an artist, it is a means of expression, for me at least, and so I wonder at all else here, be you professionals, that is, you dance or teach dance for a living, or you are artists and seek expression of the self through dance.

And of professional dancers and teachers, I am sure there is more to them than their profession.

We all come here because we have a common interest, but that interest is not the be all and end all, but a facet of ourselves.

Dear Khanjar,
The only thing I can say here is that dance is so very much more than merely a profession. I am sorry that none of your professions has ever been your ultimate, burning passion as well. Perhaps the study of the cultures and dances of the Middle East IS something so multifaceted that it can keep a person deeply, intricately and intimately involved for a lifetime. It has done that for me.
Regards,
A'isha

khanjar · 07-23-2008, 01:45 AM

Dear A'isha,

The middle east has always held a fascination for me from a very early age, I used to indulge myself on anything that could be considered middle eastern, be that the old movies that used to be so prevalent on tv, you know, the old black and white films from as early as the 1930's, the wartime sagas of the long range desert group and so forth. Understandably they like belly dance as the general public know it, is mostly of Hollywood making, but it was something, which is better than nothing, it kept my interest. I read what books I could find, T.E. Lawrence's 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom', Wilfred Thesigers; 'Marsh Arabs', 'Arabian Sands' etc. In fact, Wilfred Thesiger took many photographs of Arabia throughout his life, from somewhere starting in the 1940s up until his death in 2003. Worth searching his photographs on the internet, his pictures of Dubay in the UAE, I have tried to replicate, but little of old Dubay remains, I only ever found three wind towers, themselves, a fantastic design and work as good as AC.

I admire so much these old writers and adventurers of the past, even some of the colonial Victorians for their reporting of what they saw, I would have liked to have been something similar, it was always my interest to be so, but as with all things one gets sucked into the hum drum of daily existence and the need to work.

Now, My interest is re kindled, My old desires to visit North Africa are back with me, it is a need, not entirely sure what, but, there is something there for me. I have for a very long time admired the Middle Eastern people, and now seek to be amongst them, or others like myself. I believe they have something, that the west has forgotten.

ME dance satisfies two needs, my interest in ME culture and my need to express myself. My past professions I see as periods of learning, part of my path to bring me back to where I am now, I have gone full circle and the old interest is back. I have done many things, but I am back with the original interest, it is now up to me where I go from here.

lizaj · 07-23-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

I have noticed that is true of any art form. Artists wear their hearts on their sleeves and feel that their work IS them, so criticism of their work does tend to make them pretty nitzy. I know that for me belly dance is not something I do, it is who I am. For me, if someone I respect as a dancer tells me I need to fix something, I listen with all my heart. If some snotty upstart dancer of 6 months tell me I need to fix something, I'm likely to respond negatively. She most likely does not even know how to watch belly dance yet, never mind give anyone criticism in a snippy little voice like Miss belly dance expert of the entire known and unknown universe! ( I had that happen once. Her chin grazed the floor when she actually saw me perform later. It was VERY gratifying, and yes in this case, my response was purely unhealthy ego driven.
A healthy ego is a necessity for any creative endeavour. An unhealthy ego can be a problem.

Regards,
A'isha

I had a good little giggle at this but I know what you mean!
Sting once said that if someone didnt like one of his songs, it was like they said they didnt like his girlfriend.. well I detest Trudie Styler!

For me, belly dance is something I do, as I do lots of other things too and I prefer not to be identified as just a dancer.
My preference only of course.
I feel that after 15 years, I dont need to see it as 'me' but as part of me )albeit a majot part) I think it keeps me sane this way.

I enjoy discussing and talking about it as much as I enjoy dancing itself, but I also have other passions in life too. I find like with my other work, it is important to be able to switch off sometimes.

Sting..is that the fella that once sang with Cheb Mami?
and Trudi Styler is she the actress one has never seen act..erm played "herself "once in Midsomer Murders.

and the man does NOT practise what he preaches!

Caroline_afifi · 07-23-2008, 09:34 AM

I dont know too much about what Sting is up to but Trudie is more famous for treating her servants very badly than she is for acting!

Aisha Azar · 07-23-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanjar

Dear A'isha,

The middle east has always held a fascination for me from a very early age, I used to indulge myself on anything that could be considered middle eastern, be that the old movies that used to be so prevalent on tv, you know, the old black and white films from as early as the 1930's, the wartime sagas of the long range desert group and so forth. Understandably they like belly dance as the general public know it, is mostly of Hollywood making, but it was something, which is better than nothing, it kept my interest. I read what books I could find, T.E. Lawrence's 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom', Wilfred Thesigers; 'Marsh Arabs', 'Arabian Sands' etc. In fact, Wilfred Thesiger took many photographs of Arabia throughout his life, from somewhere starting in the 1940s up until his death in 2003. Worth searching his photographs on the internet, his pictures of Dubay in the UAE, I have tried to replicate, but little of old Dubay remains, I only ever found three wind towers, themselves, a fantastic design and work as good as AC.

I admire so much these old writers and adventurers of the past, even some of the colonial Victorians for their reporting of what they saw, I would have liked to have been something similar, it was always my interest to be so, but as with all things one gets sucked into the hum drum of daily existence and the need to work.

Now, My interest is re kindled, My old desires to visit North Africa are back with me, it is a need, not entirely sure what, but, there is something there for me. I have for a very long time admired the Middle Eastern people, and now seek to be amongst them, or others like myself. I believe they have something, that the west has forgotten.

ME dance satisfies two needs, my interest in ME culture and my need to express myself. My past professions I see as periods of learning, part of my path to bring me back to where I am now, I have gone full circle and the old interest is back. I have done many things, but I am back with the original interest, it is now up to me where I go from here.

Dear Khanjar,
I believe that those of us who are fortunate enough to be involved in a profession that truly suits us, that truly is our desire and our love and our heart, are indeed so invested in what we do that it completely reflects who we are on all levels. i am who I am whether I am dancing or hugging my grandchild. I am a dancer always, even when I am not dancing physically at the moment. As I sit here and type, I am a dancer who is typing. this is because I am a dancer through and through. It IS the thing that completes and would do so even if I were a lawyer or a dentist. Those would be my profession, but a dancer would still be WHO I am. I am just lucky that my job and my soul happen to coincide.
Regards,
A'isha

07-23-2008, 12:54 AM	#265 (permalink)
khanjar Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: England Posts: 442	Isn't it odd that we all seem to need to be identified as what we are as a professional person, as if our professional selves is the most important thing we are. I can understand it is a matter of pride for some, an accomplishment or even a title of self worth. I pursued it for years, titles, but now I am rid of all that, what I do, is but a facet of me and I am multi faceted. If it is for someone to pin me down to a profession, my answer to that would simply be artist, as artist can mean many things, why limit oneself ? Take dance, I have never been able to dance, not because I am totally inept, but because I have never allowed myself to express myself beyond what I could do as a professional person, a tradesman, be that mechanic, builder or soldier. Dance is but an art form, and as an artist, it is a means of expression, for me at least, and so I wonder at all else here, be you professionals, that is, you dance or teach dance for a living, or you are artists and seek expression of the self through dance. And of professional dancers and teachers, I am sure there is more to them than their profession. We all come here because we have a common interest, but that interest is not the be all and end all, but a facet of ourselves. __________________ I am a dream to some...and a nightmare to others.

07-23-2008, 01:45 AM	#267 (permalink)
khanjar Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: England Posts: 442	Dear A'isha, The middle east has always held a fascination for me from a very early age, I used to indulge myself on anything that could be considered middle eastern, be that the old movies that used to be so prevalent on tv, you know, the old black and white films from as early as the 1930's, the wartime sagas of the long range desert group and so forth. Understandably they like belly dance as the general public know it, is mostly of Hollywood making, but it was something, which is better than nothing, it kept my interest. I read what books I could find, T.E. Lawrence's 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom', Wilfred Thesigers; 'Marsh Arabs', 'Arabian Sands' etc. In fact, Wilfred Thesiger took many photographs of Arabia throughout his life, from somewhere starting in the 1940s up until his death in 2003. Worth searching his photographs on the internet, his pictures of Dubay in the UAE, I have tried to replicate, but little of old Dubay remains, I only ever found three wind towers, themselves, a fantastic design and work as good as AC. I admire so much these old writers and adventurers of the past, even some of the colonial Victorians for their reporting of what they saw, I would have liked to have been something similar, it was always my interest to be so, but as with all things one gets sucked into the hum drum of daily existence and the need to work. Now, My interest is re kindled, My old desires to visit North Africa are back with me, it is a need, not entirely sure what, but, there is something there for me. I have for a very long time admired the Middle Eastern people, and now seek to be amongst them, or others like myself. I believe they have something, that the west has forgotten. ME dance satisfies two needs, my interest in ME culture and my need to express myself. My past professions I see as periods of learning, part of my path to bring me back to where I am now, I have gone full circle and the old interest is back. I have done many things, but I am back with the original interest, it is now up to me where I go from here. __________________ I am a dream to some...and a nightmare to others.

07-22-2008, 09:53 PM	#262 (permalink)
TribalDancer Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 313	I am glad to help clear that up, whatever chance I get. Thanks for hearing me out. It should be noted that Paulette teaches, and I completely concur, that tribal bellydance need not be performed. There is a path in this dance style in particular that does not lead to performing, and that does focus solely on the interpersonal connection and full focus inward on those you are dancing with. It is part of what the word "tribal" invokes--the group social dance aspect which draws from tribal peoples throughout time. The romantic idea of pick-up musicians jamming while your family, your tribe, gathers and dances together simply for the joy of it. In that case of course there is no audience that need be focused on. But if one wants to take their dance to the stage, there is another branch of study that must be pursued--another path that must be taken, which hones ones performance skills in tandem with your dance skills, the close group connection and nonverbal communication. I am so sorry to tangent, but just wanted to round out that side-topic before moving on.

07-23-2008, 09:34 AM	#269 (permalink)
Caroline_afifi V.I.P. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 1,285	I dont know too much about what Sting is up to but Trudie is more famous for treating her servants very badly than she is for acting!