lizaj

Linking in to the comment made by Fatinah on the LAAF thread about dancers telling her they were only interested in performing( or performance) is a BIG clue isn't it to the general state of belly dance here in the UK.
"Girls just wanna have fun" ( I am not leaving the guys out just pinching the title)
I am sure this might be the case elsewhere. Many students just go along for a "fun" hour out of the house. I listened to teachers telling me how long it takes to get a class to shut up and get on with it, how they switch off when you get deep and how when you mention a hafla in a town 15 miles away..they look aghast as if it 'twere a camel caravan across the Sahara. And mention LAAF for Southport people ( well some never did) or JoY heaven's above this is in Yorkshire..across those towering Pennines
Now we might make an effort for Blackpool because they are Superstars but still a minority.
But are we soooo surprised? Can we afford to be sooo superior? We bulk out class courtesy of ladies who want a break at the end of the day so we can carry on teaching the handful who will like us become the demented obssessed. Do we not say this is a fun way to keep fit, a more colourful exercise form than aerobics etc etc. Do we not march in carnivals, go along to the vicar's tea party or charity event or pamper night ( with bare -arsed waiter), jump at the chance to be snipped onto the cutting room floor of the BBC.
Folks have busy lives families, work and not all are prepared to spend more time and money to get to be a passable belly dancer...that isn't their intention. But they still want to come to class and they do love it. Are you going to turn her away. Are you going to say "don't dare perform with the rest of the class at the next haf?" Of course if you are going on stage you can get a bit fearsome and selective but even that isn't easy with loyal students .Try telling a mate of mine with a performance troupe made up of her class that she should sack some ..she'd love to but er.......
So maybe we have a choice stop teaching the funsters and drill keen bodies in dance studios. Guess what we ain't gonna do that now are we? Why because when all is said and done we partly enjoy the fun ourselves and we accept not everyone is ready to put on the serious hat.
Bit of a booger isn't it? We want to recruit and spread the word, we want to be all inclusive, we want to produce top quality artistic performers.

Caroline_afifi

One thing I have noticed about Uk cluture is the extent to which it respects modesty... specially in the North but correct me if I am wrong.

When I was in Egypt, Many women (from various countries)talked about how beautiful they were and what fantastic dancers they were. I thought I was on another planet, I really dont like people who blow their own trumpet too loudly. One woman tried on a costume and just gushed at how gorgous she looked over and over again(she did actually).
My face was a picture of course, every time I heard the heaps of self praise people gave them selves I just thought 'get me out of this mad house'.

During my hours of boredom at the festival i thought about the differences in culture and how and why they might grate.
Even in Egypt, they love to brag openly about everything and my mum in law shows photos of herself when she was younger and says how beautiful she was and brags and brags.. but she is a real darling. It really is not seen in the same light. Giving a show is not showing off etc.

What do other people feel about self compliments and all the things discussed here? another topic or what?

Caroline_afifi

Ohh yes, this is the great balancing act. I have said before that the real 'bread and butter' of this dance are the women who come for fun and fitness and a distraction from daily life. However, it does not give a free reign for a teacher to spout nonsense as a result. We need teaching on various levels perhaps. The problem is, there is rarely enough students to split classes into various levels of enthusiasm.
I feel there still needs to be cultural guidence at every level not just the dynamic of a hip drop to jolly music.

Aziyade

I think it's cultural, and we -- well, Americans at least -- have it so ingrained in our culture that we should be humble. The old Protestant ethic, I guess. I had a roommate once whose family was Persian and she was extremely "full of herself" in this way (confident, self-congratulating) and couldn't figure out why I was reluctant to be seen in a 2-piece bikini. (American guilt over feeling too "fat.") But her confidence eventually rubbed off, and I grew to appreciate it.

A few years ago, I had a lot of contact with recent immigrants from El Salvador. The women did not restrain themselves from complimenting themselves on certain thing -- but other things are taboo to "brag about." Reminds me of my husband's Greek side of the family. His aunt will explain in detail how great a cook she is, how she can make ANYTHING with a needle and thread, and what a great navigator she is. But don't you DARE compliment one of her grandbabies and talk about how beautiful they are. It's bad luck or something.

Sometimes I think I'd rather hear about how great someone thinks she is than be asked "do I look fat in this? Oh I need to go on a diet, get plastic surgery, etc."

Aisha Azar

Dear Caroline,

[quote]

masrawy

Hi Caroline
This image of a Necklace I found at my jeweler shop in Cairo last march, it has been around my neck since then. I also used the Arabic script as my seigneurs in this forum. I had difficult time in making up the translation that dose not sound like i am full of it, the closest I came to was a french word amour propre. Regards~Mahmoud

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__________________
"Be beautiful , the universe will turn beautiful in your eyes!"

TribalDancer

One of those most widely misunderstood aspect of ATS that gets parrotted over and over without full context.

The audience is not ignored. The idea is that we dance for and with one another FIRST--we aim to focus our primary energies on a unique connection between the dancers, and then learn to collectively channel these energies into an entertaining performance for an audience. The goal is to appear as one unit, one moving entity connected in a palpable way, and project our collective joy to our audiences. If we do not do it in this order, then the group improv doesn't work. You simply cannot successfully improvise as a group successfully--swiftly, with good energy, good technique, responding to the music and each other in the moment, sharing your vibe with the audience--if you haven't honed this ability to work so closely together.

Simply, the only way to do that is to nurture our collective *first*, and then send that group message out to an audience once that connection has been established.

Does that make more sense?

People who misunderstand this (and there are PLENTY of misinformed ATS dancers who misunderstand this message as well, so it's not just from 'without' but also from within that this message is misinterpreted) think it means that we ignore the audience, or don't care about the audience, or solely focus on one another. As performers, we have a dual responsibility, and in ATS we have more of a focus on the internal interrelationships than any other style I have ever studied which is required to be built before we can perform for an audience successfully. It is part of what makes it unique.

Marya

Sharon,
As you may recall I once complimented you and your fellow dancers for being really, really, good ATS dancers. It is good you are here to offer a professional view of that style.

I studied tribal for awhile and the leader of that group may a big point of saying that we only danced for each other and not for the audience. She made a big point of saying a bunch of other stuff which I later decided was hogwash, so I guess I shouldn't have believed what she said about not dancing for the audience either.

She was one of Paulette's students.

Marya

Aisha Azar

Dear Sharon and Marya,
I agree with you that is one of the best Tribal groups around! I have great respect for their work and they are one of the few Tribal groups that I actually enjoy watching.
As for where I heard the information, it has been from several tribal dancers.
Sharon, in context, your information here makes a heck of a lot more sense than "We don't dance for the audience". Thanks for sharing some valuable information. Yes, I do have a better understanding now.
Regards,
A'isha

Caroline_afifi

I have noticed that is true of any art form. Artists wear their hearts on their sleeves and feel that their work IS them, so criticism of their work does tend to make them pretty nitzy. I know that for me belly dance is not something I do, it is who I am. For me, if someone I respect as a dancer tells me I need to fix something, I listen with all my heart. If some snotty upstart dancer of 6 months tell me I need to fix something, I'm likely to respond negatively. She most likely does not even know how to watch belly dance yet, never mind give anyone criticism in a snippy little voice like Miss belly dance expert of the entire known and unknown universe! ( I had that happen once. Her chin grazed the floor when she actually saw me perform later. It was VERY gratifying, and yes in this case, my response was purely unhealthy ego driven.
A healthy ego is a necessity for any creative endeavour. An unhealthy ego can be a problem.

Regards,
A'isha

I had a good little giggle at this but I know what you mean!
Sting once said that if someone didnt like one of his songs, it was like they said they didnt like his girlfriend.. well I detest Trudie Styler!

For me, belly dance is something I do, as I do lots of other things too and I prefer not to be identified as just a dancer.
My preference only of course.
I feel that after 15 years, I dont need to see it as 'me' but as part of me )albeit a majot part) I think it keeps me sane this way.

I enjoy discussing and talking about it as much as I enjoy dancing itself, but I also have other passions in life too. I find like with my other work, it is important to be able to switch off sometimes.