what do you consider to be damaging to the future of Middle Eastern dance? - Page 2

khanjar · 07-09-2008, 10:06 PM

But does MED have to go anywhere, can we not just enjoy it for what it is. If it fails at venues and such due to social, political or even religious reasons, I am sure it will carry on in a smaller setting, as dance is about dance, people enjoying themselves to music.

I believe dance was never meant to be a money spinner and things that attract money, go through various phases, hard times and boom times.

Caroline_afifi · 07-09-2008, 10:24 PM

It will go places whether we want it to or not. Nothing stands still. We can be led or we can lead. Like most things in life.

Another point, If you make a spaggetti bolognese sauce and add chilli and kidney beans does it then become chilli con carne?? do you cook rice or spaggetti? will your customers know if it is mexican or Italian?
If you dont care and just want to enjoy the food then why did you go to an Italian restaurant??

TribalDancer · 07-09-2008, 10:55 PM

I would say BAD fusion, mislabeled fusion, fusion with elements which undermine bellydance as a legitimate and difficult art form...BAD fusion...

Jane · 07-10-2008, 01:43 AM

The dances of the Middle East have names, but they don't get used very often. All the torso based dances of the ME get lumped together as "Belly Dance"

My definition inspired by A'isha: a solo improvisational dance style rooted in Middle Eastern social dances, characterized by isolations, undulations, and rhythmic shaking of the torso and hips which visually interprets secular Middle Eastern music based in the maqam system.

I always ask "What's Middle Eastern about it?"

I also think fusion leads to CONfusion for both dancers and the public. Joe Blow sees a dancer with something around the hips, they think "belly dancer" no matter what.

If it doesn't have Middle Eastern music and movement vocabulary it isn't belly dance. You can do ME movement to Indian music, but it's NOT "belly dance". Hip-Hop to Om K. is not "belly dance" either.

Fusion is the blending of two dance forms. When you take a little of this, a little of that, taken to extremes it either becomes a muddle or a new dance form. The problem comes from "bad" fusion: Poorly executed, insensitive cultural blending, or just plain ignorance.

New dance forms deserve new names! If they are good, they will stand on their own merit. I like "global fusion" or "world fusion".

sedoniaraqs · 07-10-2008, 03:58 AM

I'm going to disagree with most of the posters in this thread and say that the most damaging element to our dance are bad and mediocre performers, and performers who just aren't ready.

Reen.Blom · 07-10-2008, 05:31 AM

Is AmCab fusion?

jenc · 07-10-2008, 07:03 AM

I'm going to agree totally with Sedonia and liz about mediocre dancers and teachers. When the majority of dancers see it as keep fit or a night out with the girls. no need to practice or work out how to improve because the standard required by the teacher isn't high. And it is so difficult to get decent teaching if you want to improve because you are in a minority (unless you want to join a "tribsl fusion troupe" and camoflage your lack of training with a mish mash of moves from different styles. Fusion is so often not thought. i don't mind ATS, even considered it as second string, but there isn't ant round here. what I dislike is the teacher's own tribal which is just a pick and mix of unidentified elements presented as Bellydance. When the local teacher actually states that she teaches Raqs Sharki, but it turns out it only as an indifferntiated part of the mix.................................... I think I'll stop. I could go on for hours

maariku · 07-10-2008, 08:03 AM

I am a bit confused in this issue. I am pretty sure I don't consider fusion (bad or good) as the biggest threat. I do get annoyed by it to the bone every now and then, but I don't see it as the biggest threat... Because I believe there will always be people who wholeheartedly want to do a nice raqs sharki and work for that and it won't disappear.

However, I tend to lose faith in the existence of those very same people when I think of folcloric dances getting less and less attention, the arising need to include all sorts of tricks in the dance and the gradual decrease of diversity in music and rhythms.

Gotta figure that out for myself now

jenc · 07-10-2008, 08:42 AM

Oh how i want to - any egyptian dancers want to move to Colchester and teach??

Lydia dubai · 07-10-2008, 08:53 AM

...people that are not even good dancers themselfs....and they teach others...they dont have much experiance performing dont know 70 procent of the stuff they suppose to know and pray on people that are new and dont know much either...i think that is bad for this art...I also think that sometime,s internet is helping selling things that are not there...if you can talk good and have a website full of bull...you will still get people think o waw sounds great...i know people that came to me when they workked in dubai for 1 month in a 3 star nightclub sitting with customers to entertain after the show...they go back home and make a website saying i was in the middle east performing and was very succesfull...and believe me i see tris not only 1 time ..but plenty of times...so people reading this websites and wow she was working in the middle east ..most be ok then ,but they dont even know what she was doiing...with this kind of info on the website they are working and selling themselfs...some of them came asking me what is the differant between saidi and tarab...the most silly things they ask me and then next month they are teaching back home...untill somebody comes along and point out ,,no that is not correct and rubbush..than we have .people that use ,,goddess and other stuppid terms is damaging to....all to cover up what they dont know and give some silly name they think they will slip treu....than we have the great teachers that are taking classes some where for 1 or 2 years and go teach ...LOL WHAT DO THEY TEACH ???SO In my humble opiniun not teachers at all selling themself as teachers that is very damaging to the future of this art....have a nice day everybody

07-09-2008, 10:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
khanjar Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: England Posts: 442	But does MED have to go anywhere, can we not just enjoy it for what it is. If it fails at venues and such due to social, political or even religious reasons, I am sure it will carry on in a smaller setting, as dance is about dance, people enjoying themselves to music. I believe dance was never meant to be a money spinner and things that attract money, go through various phases, hard times and boom times. __________________ I am a dream to some...and a nightmare to others.

07-10-2008, 01:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
Jane Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In the mountains Posts: 412	Can of worms The dances of the Middle East have names, but they don't get used very often. All the torso based dances of the ME get lumped together as "Belly Dance" My definition inspired by A'isha: a solo improvisational dance style rooted in Middle Eastern social dances, characterized by isolations, undulations, and rhythmic shaking of the torso and hips which visually interprets secular Middle Eastern music based in the maqam system. I always ask "What's Middle Eastern about it?" I also think fusion leads to CONfusion for both dancers and the public. Joe Blow sees a dancer with something around the hips, they think "belly dancer" no matter what. If it doesn't have Middle Eastern music and movement vocabulary it isn't belly dance. You can do ME movement to Indian music, but it's NOT "belly dance". Hip-Hop to Om K. is not "belly dance" either. Fusion is the blending of two dance forms. When you take a little of this, a little of that, taken to extremes it either becomes a muddle or a new dance form. The problem comes from "bad" fusion: Poorly executed, insensitive cultural blending, or just plain ignorance. New dance forms deserve new names! If they are good, they will stand on their own merit. I like "global fusion" or "world fusion".

07-10-2008, 05:31 AM	#16 (permalink)
Reen.Blom V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Between Heaven and Earth Posts: 2,262	Is AmCab fusion? __________________ Join WORLD BELLY DANCE DAY! www.worldbellydanceday.com

07-10-2008, 08:03 AM	#18 (permalink)
maariku Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Estonia Posts: 1,146	I am a bit confused in this issue. I am pretty sure I don't consider fusion (bad or good) as the biggest threat. I do get annoyed by it to the bone every now and then, but I don't see it as the biggest threat... Because I believe there will always be people who wholeheartedly want to do a nice raqs sharki and work for that and it won't disappear. However, I tend to lose faith in the existence of those very same people when I think of folcloric dances getting less and less attention, the arising need to include all sorts of tricks in the dance and the gradual decrease of diversity in music and rhythms. Gotta figure that out for myself now __________________ "[A good bellydancer] must express life, death, happiness, sorrow, love and anger, but above all she must have dignity." -Tahia Carioca,

07-09-2008, 10:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
Caroline_afifi V.I.P. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 1,285	It will go places whether we want it to or not. Nothing stands still. We can be led or we can lead. Like most things in life. Another point, If you make a spaggetti bolognese sauce and add chilli and kidney beans does it then become chilli con carne?? do you cook rice or spaggetti? will your customers know if it is mexican or Italian? If you dont care and just want to enjoy the food then why did you go to an Italian restaurant??

07-09-2008, 10:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
TribalDancer Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 313	I would say BAD fusion, mislabeled fusion, fusion with elements which undermine bellydance as a legitimate and difficult art form...BAD fusion...

07-10-2008, 03:58 AM	#15 (permalink)
sedoniaraqs Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: cultural wasteland of the midwestern US Posts: 574	I'm going to disagree with most of the posters in this thread and say that the most damaging element to our dance are bad and mediocre performers, and performers who just aren't ready.

07-10-2008, 07:03 AM	#17 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,023	I'm going to agree totally with Sedonia and liz about mediocre dancers and teachers. When the majority of dancers see it as keep fit or a night out with the girls. no need to practice or work out how to improve because the standard required by the teacher isn't high. And it is so difficult to get decent teaching if you want to improve because you are in a minority (unless you want to join a "tribsl fusion troupe" and camoflage your lack of training with a mish mash of moves from different styles. Fusion is so often not thought. i don't mind ATS, even considered it as second string, but there isn't ant round here. what I dislike is the teacher's own tribal which is just a pick and mix of unidentified elements presented as Bellydance. When the local teacher actually states that she teaches Raqs Sharki, but it turns out it only as an indifferntiated part of the mix.................................... I think I'll stop. I could go on for hours

07-10-2008, 08:42 AM	#19 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,023	Oh how i want to - any egyptian dancers want to move to Colchester and teach??

07-10-2008, 08:53 AM	#20 (permalink)
Lydia dubai V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dubai United arab emirates Posts: 1,338	...people that are not even good dancers themselfs....and they teach others...they dont have much experiance performing dont know 70 procent of the stuff they suppose to know and pray on people that are new and dont know much either...i think that is bad for this art...I also think that sometime,s internet is helping selling things that are not there...if you can talk good and have a website full of bull...you will still get people think o waw sounds great...i know people that came to me when they workked in dubai for 1 month in a 3 star nightclub sitting with customers to entertain after the show...they go back home and make a website saying i was in the middle east performing and was very succesfull...and believe me i see tris not only 1 time ..but plenty of times...so people reading this websites and wow she was working in the middle east ..most be ok then ,but they dont even know what she was doiing...with this kind of info on the website they are working and selling themselfs...some of them came asking me what is the differant between saidi and tarab...the most silly things they ask me and then next month they are teaching back home...untill somebody comes along and point out ,,no that is not correct and rubbush..than we have .people that use ,,goddess and other stuppid terms is damaging to....all to cover up what they dont know and give some silly name they think they will slip treu....than we have the great teachers that are taking classes some where for 1 or 2 years and go teach ...LOL WHAT DO THEY TEACH ???SO In my humble opiniun not teachers at all selling themself as teachers that is very damaging to the future of this art....have a nice day everybody