Kharis

You're like the Bush Administration. You get up on your high horse, whoop and holler, then ride around in circles, and end right back where you've started.

Kharis

I bet you spent ages searching for that non existent popcorn emoticon....

Aisha Azar

Yeah, Whatever, Dear.

Aniseteph

or if things really kick off...

I suspect that a huge proportion of hobbyist belly dancers bring belly dance into disrepute/ridicule from the general public just by being a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs, whether we dress up or not.

Aisha Azar

Dear Aniseteph,
Very many of the hobbyist belly dancers that I know are wonderful people who try hard to keep the quality and reputation of the dance high. Most dance in the venues that are appropriate to their skill levels. Most do not try to pass themselves off as anything other than hobbyists. Most seem to care about the dance itself. I know some who do not, but then I know people who are "professionals" that don't seem to care that much, either. There are some, who make it all about them. It's too bad because both amateurs and professionals can get a lot out of the dance if they can move beyond their own egos. Caroline has addressed this problem of putting the self before the dance in several areas of the forum today. I think its relevant to the current discussion here.
Regards,
A'isha

Aniseteph

Personally I agree about the self vs. dance thing (and don't go in for much dressing up either, it took me ages to get the nerve to wear a hipscarf to class, and as for sitting on sequins or in a bra top at a hafla or show... ow/eww, count me out).

Depends a bit what counts as dressing up I suppose. I haven't been to many, but I suspect a lot of hafla and post show dance dressing up is fairly basic nice top/skirt and a hip scarf plus a bit of bling - fairly casual, not a full-on pro costume. I'd agree those should be for performing only, and if you swan around like that it screams wannabe - if you don't realise pretty fast that you look a bit OTT and mend your ways then teachers should be having a quiet word.

I don't think it's fair to put the the more understated dressing up for haflas in the same category. People enjoy it, it isn't that much different to what some people wear to class, and IMO it doesn't do much damage to anything. I guess it comes down to where you draw the line of over (or is it under?) dressing.

Aziyade

Back to what Sharon was talking about, the "inauthentic energy" thing --

I've heard that Rachel allegedly said she was sick of teaching a workshop and seeing so many clones of her in the audience.

I feel for our gal, but then I think, "Well, aren't you kinda encouraging that when you teach STYLIZATION to people with 1-2 years experience in dance?"

For the Tribal and Fusion teachers out there who are NOT doing improv -- what are you teaching in your workshops and classes? Is it solid technique? Musical interpretation? Or is it a "tribal fusion" choreography, complete with stylizations, facial expressions, etc?

I've always thought Shareen el Safy did the best with teaching a choreography. She could teach a whole room of people the same STEPS, but then everybody in that room would dance it differently. You didn't see many Shareen clones.


One of the things that drives me crazy, especially as I progress through Suhaila's levels, is something she calls "dancing your drills." I have seen WAY too many self-described "fusion" dancers doing what looks to my eyes like the DRILLS from a Suhaila Level 1 or 2 workshop. This is actually one of the things that originally turned me off of Suhaila's method because I didn't think it looked like DANCING. Turns out, it's NOT. It's just drill work. The DANCING part doesn't come until later -- when you have solid technique.

I like this educational approach, but I know many adult students would revolt against it. "I want to DANCE not spend time at the barre." Can't you just hear adult ballet students saying that?

Suheir

Heh, heh, heh! Yeah, I want to play guitar, not learn CHORDS!

TribalDancer

YES! And Aziyade, YES too!

I love taking drills classes to push my limits. I like to teach them for the same reason. But I never JUST teach drills, and in the end, we are DANCING--putting combos together, listening to the music, connecting with it and each other. I would die of boredom as a teacher if all I ever taught was drills.

The Suhaila program is unique in that she is trying to teach technique which dancers can then overlay their own style on top of. Suhaila says she doesn't teach a "style", she teaches technique. But from what I understand, as you have, too, Aziyade, the digging into the meat of creating a dance for yourself gets addressed pretty far down the line for many people's tastes. They take a level 1 and then VOILA. They are touting that all over their resumes and performing...drills to music. I wonder if something could be injected at the earlier levels that at least addresses this more clearly for those taking the program, because I am not sure that message is getting across. And ultimately, while she says she isn't teaching a style, it is near impossible to take students under your wing for years of intense study and not have your style become their style. When you see a student of Suhaila, they dance much like her. Of course they would! I don't think that is a bad thing. I think it's inevitable!

Another thing that is damaging the community right now? Everyone and their mother coming up with some kind of certification program, such that very beginner students are getting these certificates (signifying very little), and thinking it qualifies them at some higher level, when many of the certs are "certificates of completion" and not tested skills! This ties into the "enthusiastic noobs" and "irresponsible teachers".

To their credit, many of the teachers who created their programs make it very clear they are "certs of completion ONLY", but the students hear what they want to hear, and the GP doesn't know any better. Though there are some teachers out there who should not be teaching certs, or teaching other teachers (master level), who are, and the issue spreads...

cathy

Hi Aziyade!

Teachers should definitely teach basic technique as the bedrock and make it clear when they are teaching stylizations on top of that. I think it's irresponsible to combine them. IMO many "hot combos," "signature moves," "gestures" and even interpretations such as "skirt dancing" are stylizations.

The trouble is if the teacher either can't separate the pure technique from whatever stylizations she/he favors (or simply absorbed) then they are passed along as if part of the whole cloth. I suspect another aspect to all this is that given the glut in the market at many levels, the teachers fear if they do not market themselves as offering something new and different then they will not get enough attendees.

I also suspect that the so-called various types of some movements or the way they are taught (shimmies for example) are more of the same.

Cathy