Hadia's perspective - Page 2

Caroline_afifi · 06-11-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Janaki,

As for the issue of the short workshop, I don't think a workshop is supposed to be your learning foundation. The idea is to introduce new concepts into what one already is learning or knows, or add onto previously attained knowledge. It is to introduce new ways of looking at dance or specific dance ideas. The workshop is to pique your interest in a new area of dance or build on old information and techniques. Those who go to a workshop and think they walk away knowing it all are sadly misinformed about the nature of workshops. A workshop setting is all about getting a taste. Enough tastes and you might eventually get a cup full!! After that, keep going and you get a bowl full and a pot full, etc. It is a continuous growing process for as long as we dance.
Regards,
A'isha

I totally agree with this concept.
The trouble is people do tick boxes and I hear people say 'I dont want to do X as i have done it before' . Like you say, you have to keep on doing it to fill your cup. When there are lots of different teachers in your life, you can actually become confused about what has gone into your cup as they may have the same title but conflict dramatically. The urge for tasters and to come up with new ideas is the very thing which is moving us in a completely different direction away from MED.

I often wonder if people just make it up to look like they have something different to offer.
And like Suheir said, some teachers actually teach a subject when they have only had one workshop themselves.

I sometimes get the impression that a workshop entitled 'Egyptian dance technique' would send people running in the opposite direction and through the doors of 'kung fu feather boa style belly dance for wild fun and fitness'.

adiemus · 06-11-2008, 07:09 PM

'kung fu feather boa style belly dance for wild fun and fitness' - ooooh! where is THAT workshop, I'm IN!!!

I'm a university lecturer as well as pain management therapist, and I'm running learning workshops as well as other forms of learning all the time. Provided that the facilitator is allowing people to have adequate breaks, structures the learning so that it builds on to the previous section, and allows people to revise frequently, it's entirely possible to have a whole day or two-day workshop that people can keep up with.
A two hour workshop doesn't provide enough time for repeating and rehearsing or consolidating the learning of new stuff, and certainly not enough to get it into 'muscle memory' or to make it automatic.

As a newbie (just over 1 year) I'm about to attend a two-day workshop. I have no doubt I'll forget way more than I actually learn, but every little piece contributes to my knowledge.

If a workshop is merely to pique interest - where do you get further learning from? A single teacher cannot teach across the entire breadth of MED...

Aisha Azar · 06-11-2008, 07:11 PM

Dear Caroline,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

I totally agree with this concept.
The trouble is people do tick boxes and I hear people say 'I dont want to do X as i have done it before' .

Yes, I hear stuff like, "I already took a workshop from so and so.", as if they could magically get all the material this person had to offer in one 4-5 hour class!! I agree that many dancers seem to be more interested in how many dancers they had a class from rather than following up until they really get it! I have followed several teachers around for years and still find that I have more to learn from them.

Quote:

Like you say, you have to keep on doing it to fill your cup. When there are lots of different teachers in your life, you can actually become confused about what has gone into your cup as they may have the same title but conflict dramatically. The urge for tasters and to come up with new ideas is the very thing which is moving us in a completely different direction away from MED.

By "new concepts" I meant like this: I had a lot of trouble learning to execute an upward undulation in the manner of Egyptian dancers. I went to several, several workshops where people were teaching it, but none of their methods seemed to get through to my brain. Then, I took a class with Feiruz Aram and I had the movement in minutes, and have been able to do it ever since. She presented the movement in a way that resonated with me. I find that occasionally I can not get some concept through to one of my own students, but someone else can, and the same goes for when I teach workshops. People occasionally come up to me and say they never got the movement or concept until I explained it to them in my way. By new concept, I do not mean Tap on Point with Flaming Batons Belly Dance!!

Quote:

I often wonder if people just make it up to look like they have something different to offer.
And like Suheir said, some teachers actually teach a subject when they have only had one workshop themselves.

And we have only ourselves to blame. Some years ago when I first started pressing the point that all of these fusions needed to be called something besides "belly dance", I got so much vitriol thrown in my face that its a wonder I have any skin left!! How dare me be so mean spirited and narrow minded, etc, etc. It was as if people could not see how this was going to affect things in the long term, though it seemed pretty clear. And people continue to make up more and more bizarre things in the name of belly dance. Now, thank God, I am not the only one on the band wagon, or who dares to speak out.

And yes, there are those teachers out there who take one lousy lesson,if any, and start teaching. Unfortunately, I am not sure how to combat this issue, except to try to keep doing the best by the dance that I can in writing, giving workshops and classes, and stating that WE need to take care of the dance. I see this as an important part of my job as a dance instructor, regardless of how unpopular my view might be in the moment.

Quote:

I sometimes get the impression that a workshop entitled 'Egyptian dance technique' would send people running in the opposite direction and through the doors of 'kung fu feather boa style belly dance for wild fun and fitness'.

Well, that is the fault of the dance community for not looking the problem square in the eye and not taking responsibility for labeling fusion as such and insisting on clear definitions. Any more, people do not know authentic belly dance from a hole in the wall and we have only us to blame. I should add that I usually have no trouble getting at least a decent turn-out for workshops and I teach Egyptian belly dance with great enthusiasm. I feel that any kind of dance labeled "belly dance" needs basics in Egyptian, Lebanese or Turkish style, for a firm foundation on which to build skills.

Regards,
A'isha

teela · 06-11-2008, 08:23 PM

I am one of those people who due to geographic locations, has to rely on attending workshops for most of my learning opportunities. My problem with most two hour workshops is that I feel like someone from that old movie "If its tuesday it must be brussels". I get done and I don't really remember that much. Notes help but sometimes I just don't connect the written notes with what I remember of the workshop. I know I cannot learn everthing in a workshop but it gives me a feel for whatever the topic is. I will be coming into Fairbanks in September to participate in a workshop with Hadia and I look forward to it. There are several people on the forum I would love to study with if I ever get the chance. I have quite a few of Hadia's DVD's and use them regularly as I really enjoy the content. For me, the DVD's give me an opportunity I would never have but what I give up is the live feedback you get in the workshop or classroom situation which is so very important.

Caroline_afifi · 06-11-2008, 08:25 PM

A'isha,
I cant argue with that.
I am sort of split because it does annoy me how many people prefer gimmick dancing as opposed to the root forms of the dance they proffess to love so much. However, I do love experimental work and some artists are just amazing at what they can do with this dance. I am a big fan of Raksan from Berlin and think she is a true artist.
I like the odd bit of fun and I am not a pure traditionalist who thinks this dance is all about dotting the I's and crossing the T's.
It all comes down to balance for me and I am not sure just how balanced the scene is anymore.

Aisha Azar · 06-11-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

A'isha,
I cant argue with that.
I am sort of split because it does annoy me how many people prefer gimmick dancing as opposed to the root forms of the dance they proffess to love so much. However, I do love experimental work and some artists are just amazing at what they can do with this dance. I am a big fan of Raksan from Berlin and think she is a true artist.
I like the odd bit of fun and I am not a pure traditionalist who thinks this dance is all about dotting the I's and crossing the T's.
It all comes down to balance for me and I am not sure just how balanced the scene is anymore.

Dear Caroline,
I also love good fusion, for example, Sabbah that does the ballet, Raqs Sharghi fusion. She is sublime! I only wish it would be clearly labeled as something other than "belly dance". I agree that right now in the West, at any rate, there is an imbalance in the world of Middle Eastern dance and its off shoots. I also am a traditionalist who occasionally steps over the boundaries of Middle Eastern, but I believe that it is my duty to explain that to the audience in clear terms when I do. I wish I had some solution that was equitable to all, but mostly to the dance itself.
Regards,
A'isha

Caroline_afifi · 06-11-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teela

I am one of those people who due to geographic locations, has to rely on attending workshops for most of my learning opportunities. My problem with most two hour workshops is that I feel like someone from that old movie "If its tuesday it must be brussels". I get done and I don't really remember that much. Notes help but sometimes I just don't connect the written notes with what I remember of the workshop. I know I cannot learn everthing in a workshop but it gives me a feel for whatever the topic is. I will be coming into Fairbanks in September to participate in a workshop with Hadia and I look forward to it. There are several people on the forum I would love to study with if I ever get the chance. I have quite a few of Hadia's DVD's and use them regularly as I really enjoy the content. For me, the DVD's give me an opportunity I would never have but what I give up is the live feedback you get in the workshop or classroom situation which is so very important.

I think what you are doing is right. It is not so much about the festivals but the approach to learning from them. Festivals are wonderful things and I do really love them. I just think we need to be thoughtful about what we want from them in terms of learning and development as well as the social and fun aspect. I have friends whom are isolated from regular teachers etc. and it is very hard. Summer schools which do intensives with just a few teachers offer consistency (depending on whom the teachers are of course).

Aisha Azar · 06-11-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teela

I am one of those people who due to geographic locations, has to rely on attending workshops for most of my learning opportunities. My problem with most two hour workshops is that I feel like someone from that old movie "If its tuesday it must be brussels". I get done and I don't really remember that much. Notes help but sometimes I just don't connect the written notes with what I remember of the workshop. I know I cannot learn everthing in a workshop but it gives me a feel for whatever the topic is. I will be coming into Fairbanks in September to participate in a workshop with Hadia and I look forward to it. There are several people on the forum I would love to study with if I ever get the chance. I have quite a few of Hadia's DVD's and use them regularly as I really enjoy the content. For me, the DVD's give me an opportunity I would never have but what I give up is the live feedback you get in the workshop or classroom situation which is so very important.

Dear Teela,
Do you seem to retain more, then, from longer classes? I tend to have the opposite problem and have noticed that so do most people when I go out to teach workshops. I usually retain information well for about 2 1/2 hours and after that I begin to have problems, especially if I have not had a break. Usually at about three hours people just seem to start fading, many sit down and "take notes", stuff like that. I usually do three hours with a 15 minute break in the middle to hydrate and maybe eat a banana or something. We usually watch videos that I bring for that purpose during the break, so we move from movement into observation and then back to movement class. People seem to stick better and retain more if they have the break. I think Adiemus mentioned that, too.

Regards,
A'isha

teela · 06-11-2008, 08:48 PM

A`isha,
Its not so much the 2 vs 3 hour time frame as i really do much better with repetition of having the material over several weeks. In case of a workshop, I do better with the 3 hours length if I have a break in the middle so my mind has a break. The breaks are important to give our brains a chance to process the information we've picked up. If you go straight through, your mind does not have a chance to really work though the information and place it so it can be retrieved later. I think we spend most of the time "in the present" so to speak with its a straight through workshop.

teela · 06-11-2008, 08:51 PM

One more thing, I find if I attend workshops on the same topic, say Turkish Rom Dancing, then I start recognizing moves I've had in previous workshops and they start to make more sense. I think its by taking workshops on the same topics, that we as dancers really start to connect the dots. I have never taken a workshop and thought I knew it all. I am starting to find I am learning more, now that I have a base in certain areas.

06-11-2008, 07:09 PM	#12 (permalink)
adiemus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 977	'kung fu feather boa style belly dance for wild fun and fitness' - ooooh! where is THAT workshop, I'm IN!!! I'm a university lecturer as well as pain management therapist, and I'm running learning workshops as well as other forms of learning all the time. Provided that the facilitator is allowing people to have adequate breaks, structures the learning so that it builds on to the previous section, and allows people to revise frequently, it's entirely possible to have a whole day or two-day workshop that people can keep up with. A two hour workshop doesn't provide enough time for repeating and rehearsing or consolidating the learning of new stuff, and certainly not enough to get it into 'muscle memory' or to make it automatic. As a newbie (just over 1 year) I'm about to attend a two-day workshop. I have no doubt I'll forget way more than I actually learn, but every little piece contributes to my knowledge. If a workshop is merely to pique interest - where do you get further learning from? A single teacher cannot teach across the entire breadth of MED... __________________ He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)

06-11-2008, 08:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
teela Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 297	I am one of those people who due to geographic locations, has to rely on attending workshops for most of my learning opportunities. My problem with most two hour workshops is that I feel like someone from that old movie "If its tuesday it must be brussels". I get done and I don't really remember that much. Notes help but sometimes I just don't connect the written notes with what I remember of the workshop. I know I cannot learn everthing in a workshop but it gives me a feel for whatever the topic is. I will be coming into Fairbanks in September to participate in a workshop with Hadia and I look forward to it. There are several people on the forum I would love to study with if I ever get the chance. I have quite a few of Hadia's DVD's and use them regularly as I really enjoy the content. For me, the DVD's give me an opportunity I would never have but what I give up is the live feedback you get in the workshop or classroom situation which is so very important.

06-11-2008, 08:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
Caroline_afifi V.I.P. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 1,335	A'isha, I cant argue with that. I am sort of split because it does annoy me how many people prefer gimmick dancing as opposed to the root forms of the dance they proffess to love so much. However, I do love experimental work and some artists are just amazing at what they can do with this dance. I am a big fan of Raksan from Berlin and think she is a true artist. I like the odd bit of fun and I am not a pure traditionalist who thinks this dance is all about dotting the I's and crossing the T's. It all comes down to balance for me and I am not sure just how balanced the scene is anymore.

06-11-2008, 08:48 PM	#19 (permalink)
teela Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 297	A`isha, Its not so much the 2 vs 3 hour time frame as i really do much better with repetition of having the material over several weeks. In case of a workshop, I do better with the 3 hours length if I have a break in the middle so my mind has a break. The breaks are important to give our brains a chance to process the information we've picked up. If you go straight through, your mind does not have a chance to really work though the information and place it so it can be retrieved later. I think we spend most of the time "in the present" so to speak with its a straight through workshop.

06-11-2008, 08:51 PM	#20 (permalink)
teela Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 297	One more thing, I find if I attend workshops on the same topic, say Turkish Rom Dancing, then I start recognizing moves I've had in previous workshops and they start to make more sense. I think its by taking workshops on the same topics, that we as dancers really start to connect the dots. I have never taken a workshop and thought I knew it all. I am starting to find I am learning more, now that I have a base in certain areas.