Marya

I know this is a huge sensitive topic, but on Monday a friend of mine in Seattle, who was the one who got me started in Dance, told me that our former teacher has said that Egyptian women dance the way that they do because they have been circumcised (and presumably therefore, one would not desire to emulate Egyptian dance style).

The other part of this story is that this teacher perceives rage and anger in Egyptian women's dancing. (presumably due to the trauma of circumcision and yet another reason not to emulate Egyptian style)

I was astounded. I commented that not all female circumcision is mutilating or debilitating and not all Egyptian women have been circumcised. And that I certainly did not perceive anger and rage in any of the female professional Egyptians dancers. The recent documentary that featured interviews with big name dancers in Egypt illustrates that they are dancing out of love of the dance.

I have read accounts of female circumcision in Egypt and someone who lived there for a year in the 1990's told me he had been told that most women in Egypt have been circumcised. In the account I read the woman who was sharing her experience in circumcision was Christian.

What are your thoughts on how this procedure would effect a women's dance and anger and rage being expressed in Egyptian women's dancing?

Marya

sedoniaraqs

Google "female genital mutilation" and you will find several .org sites on the topic. Unfortunately, these sites report that it is still shockingly common even in more progressive countries like Egypt, and even among the educated wealthier classes (though these tend to do the less severe forms)

From what I understand, it is a North African custom not bounded by ethnic group or religion. It is not just common in Egypt but Sudan, Ethiopia, etc.

Performing any kind of circumcision on babies/children of either gender disgusts and outrages me (yes, I am disgusted that we circumcise baby boys in this country).

Marya

actually, while you were posting I was googling and found this report specifically about Egypt :

http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/rep/crfgm/10096.htm

So do you think the dance is adversely affected?

Marya

Reen.Blom

Hey Marya we had a discussion here some time ago:
Female circumcision in Egypt

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Marya

Thanks Reen, I will go read these posts

What about the supposition that the procedure adversely effects dancing?

Marya

sedoniaraqs

I think everything about a culture affects the dances of that culture.
In terms of circumcision, I think it is but one manifestation of a much broader fear and loathing of female sexuality.

Aisha Azar

Dear Marya,
I think that to connect rage and anger from circumcision to and raqs sharghi is ridiculous. I do think that, depending on the severity of the circumcision, it may affect how a person moves physically. Removing the tip of the clitoris, maybe not so much. Removing the tip of the clitoris and inner and our labial tissue, I can see where that would have a physical effect. I also am against the circumcision of boys and men as well. I think it is a hideous practice, no matter who we are performing it on. I know some circumsized Egyptian women ( and so do you!! NO names here.). It does not seem to have interfered with their ability to enjoy dancing, but then, I do not know the extent of the circumcision and what was removed, so I am not in a position to really give a complete answer, but it would seem to me that it would depend on the severity of the operation. I wonder if this same person sees rage and anger in almost all the men in the Western and Middle Eastern world, and by the way, it was not uncommon for baby girls in the South to be circumsized in the states into the 1950s. ( I am talking middle class white girls here!) I will ask permission of someone I know to see if she is willing to talk to you about it.
Regards,
A'isha

Shanazel

I am from the South, a middle class white girl, born in the 1950s. My family has been in the South since 1635. In all my life I have never heard of anyone circumsizing girls in the south. Ever. And if the practice is "not uncommon," I seriously think I'd have heard about it in 53 years of dealing with other southerners, many of whom are not noted for their reticence on delicate subjects. If the woman of whom you write underwent this heinious procedure, that is horrible and my heart goes out to her. However, to read a claim that it was a common practice in my culture really steams me; it is a misrepresentation of my heritage and of my background on a forum that has worldwide viewing and I resent it very much.

Aisha Azar

Dear Shanazel,
I should have said, "not unheard of", did happen occasionally. Please forgive my unfortunate choice of words. This woman's cousin was circumsized and her mother wrote in a diary that doctors wanted to circumsize her, but her mother did not go through with it.They are from the south about as far as you can get. I am not making this up. If I can get the woman to talk to Marya about it,will you then be willing to entertain the thought that it just MIGHT have been happening? At times in my life, I have been surprisedto find that a lot of things that no one talked about went on in places that I have lived. I know the woman very well. She is in her early 60s and we were discussing circumcision in general when she told me. I was skeptical at first, too, but what reason would she have for saying something like that if it were not true?
Regards,
A'isha

Shanazel

I am willing to believe there are idiots all over the world who put their females through all sorts of torture, A'isha. To say this goes on in the United States on occasion would not have surprised or offended me. To have it held out as a cultural event in the South in particular does offend me, horribly. There is difference between one woman's experience and a cultural phenomenon, and if this was a cultural phenomenon, I seriously doubt I'd have gone all these years without hearing about it.