A thought-provoking article on bellydance forums and such

[Aniseteph]

Originally Posted by Suheir

I love this paragraph, next to a photo of her in stockings!: "After years of saying “this is not bellydance” about this or that style, critical voices fade away and the maverick artists prevail every single time. So, again, if one cares about her standing among artists, think twice before letting the critic in you utter her judgement"

Hated those stockings, not very bellydan.... aww shoot, there goes my standing amongst artists... (but I love "maverick artist" - got to save that up for next time I see a particularly, er, avant-garde? bit of fusion. Wonderful reference-speak).

I think forums are fab. Is anyone actually saying anything THAT bad that it affects their artistic standing? So mind what you say.... well Duh!!!! Or maybe no one here counts as one of these high-toned Artists anyway...

Am I a message board maven yet?

[karena]

Personally I think she has a fair point. I sometimes find myself wincing at the things that are sometimes said by people that will be there for posterity. It's good to make people think about it - I might not agree with everything she is saying but you don't start a debate with something bland. The chatting in a room with your mates analogy was good for me; sometimes people write things that don't reflect the public nature of a forum for me. People don't need telling what to do, but raising the debate in their minds is surely a good thing...

[jenc]

Originally Posted by Suheir

I love this paragraph, next to a photo of her in stockings!: "After years of saying “this is not bellydance” about this or that style, critical voices fade away and the maverick artists prevail every single time. So, again, if one cares about her standing among artists, think twice before letting the critic in you utter her judgement"

I really don't even think that is true. I know that everything evolves BUT Fashions in ART come and go, let alone BD. Not everything stands the test of time. And I HAVE seen some truly dreadful things in the name of FUSION.

If she means ATS, tribal fusion, Gothic etc. some forms of these do seem to actually be moving away from BD. Yes they have large numbers of fans, but they seem to me to be approaching the status of separate dances. In some instances I say, very skillful, but it leaves me cold. I feel I'm entitled to my opinion.

In other instances, we have also seen innovatin for the sake of innovation, where it seems to more important to be the originator of XYZ fusion, than to have seriously considered how well the idea works in practice (let alone in public).

If we follow Neon and never say anything critical about new things, we wil have to sit through more and more awful stuff, especially when embarassment makes us clap harder than we should!!!

It is a fact of life, but I have learnt a lot from seeing criticisms of other people!!!

[karena]

Originally Posted by jenc

If we follow Neon and never say anything critical about new things, we wil have to sit through more and more awful stuff, especially when embarassment makes us clap harder than we should!!!

It doesn't say to clap. There is something between slating on a forum and clapping. I have to critique work of students. If it is bad, I don't sit there and say "wow that's great" but I also don't go to town on picking on every small detail. To develop and nurture something, we have to constructively criticise. That doesn't mean not saying it, but there are ways, and then there are ways.

And it doesn't refer to everyone nor dictate not to do it

So, again, if one cares about her standing among artists, think twice before letting the critic in you utter her judgement

(my emphasis)

Of course there will be people who don't care about their standing, have no standing in the first place nor a desire to acquire one, thrive on the notoriety or have a massive standing so are beyond such worries

Nothing is black and white, it's all shades of grey. In fact, I might just change my signature to that

[Caroline_afifi]

Originally Posted by jenc

If we follow Neon and never say anything critical about new things, we wil have to sit through more and more awful stuff, especially when embarassment makes us clap harder than we should!!!

It is a fact of life, but I have learnt a lot from seeing criticisms of other people!!!

Totally agree, whilst people can openly talk, discuss and debate in an open forum it gives power to the consumers and should make atists/business people think twice about what they are doing with regards to quality etc.
I should know as I am both. Years ago you could do anything and get away with it, anything could be squashed under the umberella of 'belly dance' but not any more and thank goodness.

[Reen.Blom]

Well I think she refers alot to personal attacks and stuff, and refering also to the fact that an Artists has bigger obligations than just jumping in a heated discussion. There should be a line between "constructive critique" and "youTube-like" comments that made many a person sick.

[Suheir]

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

Totally agree, whilst people can openly talk, discuss and debate in an open forum it gives power to the consumers and should make atists/business people think twice about what they are doing with regards to quality etc.
I should know as I am both. Years ago you could do anything and get away with it, anything could be squashed under the umberella of 'belly dance' but not any more and thank goodness.

Quite right, we *are* consumers and Neon, especially, is a product with a marketing machine behind it. As paying customers, students have every right to give their opinions of the quality of teaching and theatre audiences, likewise. The belly dance "community" seems especially reluctant to give honest reviews of shows in its magazines. I'd like to see a "Good Housekeeping" style comparison of teachers' classes, for instance, but that's never going to happen!

[adiemus]

I'm hoping this is seen as an innocent question, but why is it important to care about one's standing amongst other artists? I would have thought to be honest and true to yourself, treat others as you would be treated, that should be sufficient to make anyone think about what they write about, whether in a forum like this, to the general media, or through an article.

[Caroline_afifi]

Originally Posted by adiemus

I'm hoping this is seen as an innocent question, but why is it important to care about one's standing amongst other artists? I would have thought to be honest and true to yourself, treat others as you would be treated, that should be sufficient to make anyone think about what they write about, whether in a forum like this, to the general media, or through an article.

Yes, and for me, most of my learning and development has been through critique by people I have respected and been in awe of.
Taking things on the chin is an important part of growth as most people will agree. If everyone tells you you are great then how do you move forward?
If the message is too subtle we may choose not to hear it.
Confusion is part of clarity. An opinion is healthy, perhaps not being open enough to change is not.
Sometimes we explore things to a conclusion and other ideas change constantly.
Who has not learned anything about themselves and others on this forum?
I have personally found it a great learning curve.

[karena]

Originally Posted by adiemus

I'm hoping this is seen as an innocent question, but why is it important to care about one's standing amongst other artists? I would have thought to be honest and true to yourself, treat others as you would be treated, that should be sufficient to make anyone think about what they write about, whether in a forum like this, to the general media, or through an article.

Surely to get work??