Andrea Deagon

Brea -- I loved Mists of Avalon, then read her book on Cassandra, which is in my field (Classical Studies) and was offended not only by the inaccuracy but the sheer lack of any kind of sensitivity to the culture. Inaccuracy I can deal with, in fiction at least, but insensitivity narks me. Then it occurred to me that Celtic historians might feel the same way about Mists of Avalon. (On the other hand, I loved the Darkover books when I read them in my late teens/early 20's.)

My feeling about deity is that it forms itself according to the needs of the culture (like archetype) -- the fact that there was not any monolithic Great Goddess in the past doesn't mean that a Great Goddess is an invalid focus of spiritual energies in the present day. The fact that Wicca has a strong 19th century component doesn't mean it's not a valid form of polytheistic religion now.

It would be nice if people took what they do and believe sufficiently seriously not to need to project it into the past. As I intimated earlier, the reason some dancers/New Age types are so adamant about a Great Goddess in the past is that they don't believe in her power in the present day. If they're going to keep the Mother Goddess warm fuzzies alive, they have to project her into the past.

I also get peeved at times because people assume that you're a supporter of patriarchy if you don't believe in the Gimbutas-style matriarchy that's so prominent in belly dance pseudo-history. The reason I don't believe in it is that I'm a feminist to the core, and believing in a fictitious 19th century-style New Age matriarchy does nothing to further the cause of feminism (which I define as improving life for everyone by working towards gender equality and support of women's concerns).

Ranting and loving it --
Andrea

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"I am not contradictory, I am dispersed." (Roland Barthes)

Brea

Andrea-

Celtic historians do get very annoyed by Mists of Avalon. If people realized it was fiction that would be one thing, but they don't seem to. The real problem is that people assume it applies to the entirety of the Celtic fringe (Scotland, Ireland, etc), when it does not, which is only one of the many problems with the book. The interesting thing about Christianity in Scotland and Ireland is that they pretty much did it themselves. Rome was far from both places (well, the Highlands in Scotland at least) and the Picts became Christian because of Irish teachers, who themselves became Christian through the travels of their own holy men and teachers. Ireland is often considered the 'cradle of Christianity'. Yes, I am personally Christian, but that doesn't have much to do with it. If the accurate history was something else, that's what I'd believe, because it is the history. I am very interested in historical fact as we know it. Considering that the Picts- not even the Scots as we consider them now- were Christian in the Highlands, that tells us a lot about that particular history.

I agree that the goddess worship idea does have its place in the here and now, and find it interesting that people feel the need to project it into the past. Maybe it's like A'isha said about this dance and the pyramids...

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Jane

These are the same people that tell me I'm not a real belly dancer 'cause I don't wear a jewel in my tummy!

Really though, all you can do is refer them to an accurate book. If it's a friend maybe even buy it for them!

The SCA is getting better, slowly. You get all kinds in the SCA and there is a learning curve, especially for Braveheart fans and Belly Dancers. You should meet the Pirates! Ack! We've got of ton of Jack Sparrow and Titus Pullo wannabees now. Folks join because something is popular, then either fade away or get with the program. Here's an article I wrote last year (needs an update!) for belly dancers who want to dance in the SCA. I'd appriciate your thoughts.

http://www.florilegium.org/files/DAN...Dance-art.html

sedoniaraqs

Because it is their spiritual belief system. Their "religion", if you will. Believing this gives purpose to their lives. They don't want to contemplate a world without belly dancing goddesses. From it they derive inner personal strength, and only through it do they manage to muster ethical behavior and common empathy for their fellow human beings. Irrational? Lacking proof? In direct conflict with numerous lines of scientific evidence? Why, yes.

I also find irrational, unproven belief systems a source of endless curiosity.

sedoniaraqs

Very profound, A'isha. A wisdom that, should one desire, be extrapolated way beyond dancing and pyramids.

lizaj

You got it right. Folks need to make sense of their world and if the goddess theory is their bag, go for it boys and girls but like many I get fed up with the constant claims to ownership of bellydance made by the sisterhood.
For some of us it's got an awful lot to do with Egyptian, Turkish , Lebanese or ......Californian culture and not a lot to do with the mists of time.
I am sure women always got up and did a sexy hip/ belly based dance to either have fun, keep fit or drive the lads looney but I prefer to look at Cairo and San Fran's near past for the roots of my dancing.

Nat242

In my humble opinion:

Did the dance originate with so called temple priestesses? No.

Do some people experience a connection to the divine when they dance? Yes. I suppose in that sense, some women have danced in this way as a personal spiritual ritual, perhaps to the Mother Goddess.

Brea, I think the reason why so many dancers cling to this idea of the Goddess-inspired belly dance tradition is because the sacred feminine has long been exiled from many popular religions. I think many women really feel the need to recapture that mythology, and find something powerful and sacred within themselves, and the Goddess-stuff may help them to do so.

I have no problem with people teaching belly dance as a spiritual exercise and as internal exploration, though the cultural and historical origins of the dance should not be ignored. It's just another fusion.

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Natalie

Shanazel

To paraphrase (broadly) Joseph Campbell, I think people are searching for a metaphor that personifies The Great Unknown.

cathy

A'isha made a good point about this dance celebrating the human, and the ongoing seeming human urge to attribute great things or big things to space aliens, magic, or God, rather than to themselves.

Andrea made a good point about the urge to reconstruct the past.

I suspect that most people, most of the time, just can't hack the idea that we are responsible for who we are, our culture, institutions, and behavior, how we manage our resources, and all the rest. It's just too scary to contemplate that there might not be anyone out there watching over us. That there may not be any other purpose or meaning. So if the purpose and meaning isn't handed to us, we make it up or latch onto one that works for us.

I sometimes think there must be a "God gene" because religion and superstition are so prevalent. I tend to think it all stems back to our need to rely on the group. Religion seems to be one of the very best ways to motivate and steer the group.

To me, dance is a way of getting beyond the limits of the self. This is a good thing. It feels vital and maybe it's all the more vital for atheists such as myself. A temporary, maybe partial cure for subjectivity. A connection to something bigger than oneself. The music? The group? Connection to other dancers past, present and future? The Mother Goddess? It all depends on how one sees things, what one wants to call them.

Cathy

adiemus

Like others on this thread I feel comfortable with some women feeling that to dance is a part of connecting with something bigger than they - and if that 'bigger' thing is g*d, or goddess, or spirit, that's their belief.
The only aspect that bothers me is when history becomes myth and perpetuates a pseudo spiritual element that isn't supported by anything. This smacks of proselytising and in the face of lack of knowledge about the dance in the general community, can be mistaken as genuine 'fact' by the naive. As a result, some people could get put off and not take up the dance (I would have never danced if I thought it was all tied up with religion), while others could (and probably do) be attracted to dance for reasons of neediness and dependence. This is what founds a cult, and given some of the comments about instructors/teachers behaviour towards students (possessiveness and ownership) I think can be a real worry!

Honest dance enhances me just as it is without trappings of 'spirit' slapped on top of it. A 'sacred feminine' has as much going for it as the 'essential masculine' - both genders are fabulous, neither is ascendent, and neither is more special than the other!!

BTW I have a new signature - and thought of the irony of posting this post when I'm promulgating 'every woman is a treasure' - perhaps I should replace it with another saying
He aha te mea nui?
He tangata.
He tangata.
He tangata.

What is the most important thing? It is people, it is people, it is people.

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He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)