The Mother Goddess - Page 12

Aisha Azar · 05-22-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belly_dancer

actually I have done both (at birthday parties... for ME!!!)... the one drunk 2 swords.... & then 2 drunks... with only one sword (each)... hmmm they were both FAB>>>>>
do not know why.. but the sword(s) stays BETTER that way?!?!
(& I have witnesses to verify..... "yes occifer... I CAN walk that straight line.... if you will only PLEASE hand me my sword!!!".....")

Dear Belly_dancer,
It would certainly be worth traveling to see!! Maybe peoples' heads flatten out when the are drunk??? Okay, that probably isn't it.
Regards,
A. A.

adiemus · 05-22-2008, 07:37 PM

It's not confined to english-speaking countries - this is translated from Spanish...
Directed to the mother goddess, the belly dance was born as a genuine rite of fertility. Through movements pleasant, winding, deliberate and concentrated in the reproductive part of attracting and energy-generating life. This sacred rite was in power exercising women. Born in the harem in Egypt, which were considered sacred temples. The belly dance was reserved for women who lacked physical imperfection, which belonged to the aristocracy, at virgins who adored the goddesses and were subjected to physical and spiritual disciplines and not those who were odaliscas concubines of the turkish, a term that became popular and that is confused today"

"A través de movimientos placenteros, sinuosos, intencionados y concentrados en la parte reproductiva se conseguía atraer así la energía generadora de vida.
"Este rito sagrado consistía en el poder que ejercía la mujer. Nace en los harem en Egipto, los que eran considerados templos sagrados. La danza del vientre estaba reservada a las mujeres que carecían de imperfección física, que pertenecían a la aristocracia, a las vírgenes que adoraban a las diosas y que se sometían a disciplinas físicas y espirituales y no a las odaliscas que eran las concubinas del turco, término que se popularizó y que se confunde hoy en día", recalca Paula Azat.

Uh, that could explain why my dancing is so bad - I have physical imperfections galore!! BTW translation is via Google which may explain the poor grammar and imperfect transation!!

Brea · 05-23-2008, 02:26 AM

Y'know, that COULD explain how the Three Musketeers and d'Artagnan could drink six bottles of wine at breakfast and still win all their duels immediately following, or during, their meals.

And to adiemus: Here's the issue I have with these things. When we teach the real history, and people have been reading this stuff over and over again, how can we prove it to them?

Andrea Deagon · 05-23-2008, 02:34 AM

adiemus, that is the most eye-roll-inspiring read I have had for quite some time. All I can say about the New Agey mother goddess and priestess thing, is that if you look at the social class and volunteer-type duties of most priestesses in Egyptian society (where BTW there was not any "mother goddess" unless you want to strip Hathor and/or Isis of most of her functions nad reduce her to that) -- you would find that these women were the equivalent of the rich ladies in the junior league or symphony board, rather than any ecstatic virgins (or if you ascribe to the opposite school of thought, ecstatic sacred prostitutes).

Having said all that, there were in some Mesopotamian temples a group of women called naditu priestesses, apparently daughters of aristocratic families, who did live on the temple grounds, and one of their duties appears to have been singing. Go back in your time machine and find any of them belly dancing, and all of us rationalists would have to munch on our hats a little.

adiemus · 05-23-2008, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brea

And to adiemus: Here's the issue I have with these things. When we teach the real history, and people have been reading this stuff over and over again, how can we prove it to them?

Me too! same issue...actually I think it initially attracts the slightly flakey, but soon the discipline and sheer hard work of the dance shakes (should that be shimmies?) the Sisterhood back to their crystals and incense and womb-like covens....

Andrea Deagon · 05-23-2008, 12:29 PM

adiemus and brea, you remind me of a student I had in one of my dance classes. She had been a stripper many years before, and had come away from that a little damaged, with more awareness of patriarchal dynamics than she could effectively handle. One day in class I remarked something derogatory to the idea of "happy dancing goddess worshippers" and it upset her a lot, since that was one of her beliefs about belly dancing. She came to me after class and wanted to know more, but I could tell that what I was saying wasn't satisfying her. Finally she said, "please tell me this was a dance for women, not just something women did for men!" I could reassure her that that was one element of it, and I told her what I know about gender-segregated dance parties in some parts of the Middle East, and so on.

She was holding on to the goddessy histories because she desperately needed to know that she could liberate her sexuality without its being in service to men. Next to a personal need that great, it's hard to be a goddess hater. For most of the people who adhere to this, it's a justification for their own feelings projected into the past. But for some people, it's an Eden they need to believe in because the present day overwhelms them and they can't find a way to an honest appreciation of the freedoms of this dance without a conceptual peg to hang it on.

Aisha Azar · 05-23-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea Deagon

adiemus, that is the most eye-roll-inspiring read I have had for quite some time. All I can say about the New Agey mother goddess and priestess thing, is that if you look at the social class and volunteer-type duties of most priestesses in Egyptian society (where BTW there was not any "mother goddess" unless you want to strip Hathor and/or Isis of most of her functions nad reduce her to that) -- you would find that these women were the equivalent of the rich ladies in the junior league or symphony board, rather than any ecstatic virgins (or if you ascribe to the opposite school of thought, ecstatic sacred prostitutes).

Having said all that, there were in some Mesopotamian temples a group of women called naditu priestesses, apparently daughters of aristocratic families, who did live on the temple grounds, and one of their duties appears to have been singing. Go back in your time machine and find any of them belly dancing, and all of us rationalists would have to munch on our hats a little.

Dear Andrea,
Many Egyptian gods and goddesses played numerous roles. Bastet (the cat with the earring, sometimes portrayed as a woman with a cat's head), was in some ways a mother goddess, being a protector of the home and pregnant women. She also was one of the incarnations of Isis and could also be a sort of warrior goddess, not to be confused with Sekhmet, who was a lionness.
Bastet is a favorite of mine. I think she once saved my cat's life when he was very sick. In a fit of sorrow and panic and superstition, I once put her picture over my cat's bed when he was very sick. This same cat went on to live for 21 years. Now I have a few different forms of Bastet in the house to protect my cats from harm. ( Couldn't hurt, might help!!)
Regards,
A'isha

belly_dancer · 05-23-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brea

Y'know, that COULD explain how the Three Musketeers and d'Artagnan could drink six bottles of wine at breakfast and still win all their duels immediately following, or during, their meals.

And to adiemus: Here's the issue I have with these things. When we teach the real history, and people have been reading this stuff over and over again, how can we prove it to them?

yeah... but studying ANY history.... round the next corner... there will be somebody to PROVE YOUR "real history" wrong!!!!... NOBODY KNOWS what REALLY happened unless they were THERE (& then that is even debatable.. if you have ever listened to 2 or more "eyewitness" accts of an event that happened YESTERDAY!)

(& those 3 musketeers..... they MUST have been sharing!!)

adiemus · 05-23-2008, 10:14 PM

they only shared when they were sitting with their mothers - who made them share!
BTW I love the idea of Bastet - that's why I always have a cat in my household, like a 'g*d of the small things'!!!

belly_dancer · 05-23-2008, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adiemus

they only shared when they were sitting with their mothers - who made them share!
BTW I love the idea of Bastet - that's why I always have a cat in my household, like a 'g*d of the small things'!!!

& maybe the MOM's drank all of that wine... I am SURE the 3 M's were underage!!!!!
y'all have a fab weekend... here we actually get monday off... (I am NOT a gov't worker... but this is one of the 5 holidays I issue to myself....
\wheeeeeee

05-22-2008, 07:37 PM	#112 (permalink)
adiemus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 977	It's not confined to english-speaking countries - this is translated from Spanish... Directed to the mother goddess, the belly dance was born as a genuine rite of fertility. Through movements pleasant, winding, deliberate and concentrated in the reproductive part of attracting and energy-generating life. This sacred rite was in power exercising women. Born in the harem in Egypt, which were considered sacred temples. The belly dance was reserved for women who lacked physical imperfection, which belonged to the aristocracy, at virgins who adored the goddesses and were subjected to physical and spiritual disciplines and not those who were odaliscas concubines of the turkish, a term that became popular and that is confused today" "A través de movimientos placenteros, sinuosos, intencionados y concentrados en la parte reproductiva se conseguía atraer así la energía generadora de vida. "Este rito sagrado consistía en el poder que ejercía la mujer. Nace en los harem en Egipto, los que eran considerados templos sagrados. La danza del vientre estaba reservada a las mujeres que carecían de imperfección física, que pertenecían a la aristocracia, a las vírgenes que adoraban a las diosas y que se sometían a disciplinas físicas y espirituales y no a las odaliscas que eran las concubinas del turco, término que se popularizó y que se confunde hoy en día", recalca Paula Azat. Uh, that could explain why my dancing is so bad - I have physical imperfections galore!! BTW translation is via Google which may explain the poor grammar and imperfect transation!! __________________ He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb) Last edited by adiemus; 05-22-2008 at 07:40 PM.

05-23-2008, 02:26 AM	#113 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	Y'know, that COULD explain how the Three Musketeers and d'Artagnan could drink six bottles of wine at breakfast and still win all their duels immediately following, or during, their meals. And to adiemus: Here's the issue I have with these things. When we teach the real history, and people have been reading this stuff over and over again, how can we prove it to them? __________________ www.breamorgiane.com

05-23-2008, 02:34 AM	#114 (permalink)
Andrea Deagon Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 123	adiemus, that is the most eye-roll-inspiring read I have had for quite some time. All I can say about the New Agey mother goddess and priestess thing, is that if you look at the social class and volunteer-type duties of most priestesses in Egyptian society (where BTW there was not any "mother goddess" unless you want to strip Hathor and/or Isis of most of her functions nad reduce her to that) -- you would find that these women were the equivalent of the rich ladies in the junior league or symphony board, rather than any ecstatic virgins (or if you ascribe to the opposite school of thought, ecstatic sacred prostitutes). Having said all that, there were in some Mesopotamian temples a group of women called naditu priestesses, apparently daughters of aristocratic families, who did live on the temple grounds, and one of their duties appears to have been singing. Go back in your time machine and find any of them belly dancing, and all of us rationalists would have to munch on our hats a little. __________________ "I am not contradictory, I am dispersed." (Roland Barthes)

05-23-2008, 12:29 PM	#116 (permalink)
Andrea Deagon Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 123	adiemus and brea, you remind me of a student I had in one of my dance classes. She had been a stripper many years before, and had come away from that a little damaged, with more awareness of patriarchal dynamics than she could effectively handle. One day in class I remarked something derogatory to the idea of "happy dancing goddess worshippers" and it upset her a lot, since that was one of her beliefs about belly dancing. She came to me after class and wanted to know more, but I could tell that what I was saying wasn't satisfying her. Finally she said, "please tell me this was a dance for women, not just something women did for men!" I could reassure her that that was one element of it, and I told her what I know about gender-segregated dance parties in some parts of the Middle East, and so on. She was holding on to the goddessy histories because she desperately needed to know that she could liberate her sexuality without its being in service to men. Next to a personal need that great, it's hard to be a goddess hater. For most of the people who adhere to this, it's a justification for their own feelings projected into the past. But for some people, it's an Eden they need to believe in because the present day overwhelms them and they can't find a way to an honest appreciation of the freedoms of this dance without a conceptual peg to hang it on. __________________ "I am not contradictory, I am dispersed." (Roland Barthes)

05-23-2008, 10:14 PM	#119 (permalink)
adiemus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 977	they only shared when they were sitting with their mothers - who made them share! BTW I love the idea of Bastet - that's why I always have a cat in my household, like a 'gd of the small things'!!! __________________ He wahine, he taonga*- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)