Brea

I have auditioned and been in contact with several burlesque shows.

1. At least in the US, belly dance DID get its start within the burlesque world. No one is saying that burlesque IS bellydance, but that the variety shows that existed at the time brought belly dance to a wider audience.

2. Today's burlesque shows that wish to hire bellydancers don't ask the bellydancer to take their clothes off.

I think that as dancers we need to really give it a rest. Bellydancers aren't strippers, but we are engaged in performing a sensual dance that everyone dances at home but those who dance onstage are not exactly the kind of people you want your child to marry. We need to see this dance for what it really is, and stop kidding ourselves. And we also need to stop standing on soapboxes saying OUR dance is somehow tasteful when burlesque is not.

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Tabitha

Brea,

I don't think anybody said burlesque not tasteful, or that there is some history of the two being linked historically, but there are a lot of us who would rather NOT see these two dance forms mushed together. I cannot tell you how many sleazy comments I have heard or how many people have tried to put money in my with their teeth. When belly and burly are put together it just creates more of a confusion for the already uneducated and furthers the notion that "our" dance is only a bunch of hip quivering moves and does not have some cultural meaning and context.

And I know I'm gonna get some heat for saying this, but while looking at her website, it is clear that Sapphira does not have a clue. I have not seen her dance, but from her pictures she is not a good representative of belly dance, and if she were in my area, she would not be a dancer who I would support.

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~Tabitha~

lizaj

That may be applicable in the ME but surely Western belly dancers do make themselves unmarriageable!!!!!

Perceptions of belly dancers in the West in very different to those in its' place of origin. WE are marketed very differently ..as hobbyists, keep fitters, ethnic dancers as well as glamour girls dancing in retaurants and night clubs. I do NOT want to see this dance belonging only to theatre going twittering snobs any more than its' "low-end" image. But because of its' beauty and accessability it is appealing beyond being seen as part of the sex industry and classy talented belly dancers are respected and loved by their audiences "over there" as well although the attitude is ambiguous.

As to Burlesque that can also be very artistic at its' best but it is adult in content whereas belly dancers are welcome at family gatherings both here and overseas.

Brea

I agree with you both, lizaj and Tabitha. I think I'm just having some kind of backlash reaction to people who try to make bellydance into some untouchable art form. Besides, I like burlesque. However, I see what you mean. I haven't even looked at Sapphira's website; going to do that now.

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Suheir

This website has a rather different view of the development of burlesque: Burlesque History, Burlesque classes London | Burlesque Factory

This made me laugh: "This may explain why the word ‘Burlesque’ is now so often considered synonymous with ‘Grotesque’ and why it is fast becoming incorrectly used as an umbrella term under which any cutting-edge, bizarre or off-the-wall act put themselves" - so, much like the term "belly dance", then!

Tabitha

Don't worry. I go back and forth with stuff like this with myself too. I like reading your posts and I know you have a good head on your shoulders and a good heart.

About Ms. Sapphira, thinking about what I said now it seems harsh, and I am not judging her character as a person, just her artistic choices about a dance that I (we) care deeply about and are struggling to make a living with. So I stand by my post. (She posted the same over on Bhuz at the same time we were having a HUGE thread about the very same, and it just struck me as she neither took the time to read or understand and was just trying to promote. It's all about timing I guess!)

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~Tabitha~

Brea

Well, I have always felt this was a sensual and/or sexual dance. I don't think that makes it dirty. I also don't think that makes it stripping. In fact, that right there may be the problem. Stripping makes no bones about being dirty. Bellydancing is different, expressing the idea of sexuality, not attempting to be a come-on (although it is often used that way). I think it's that difference that can be blurred because in the West we often cannot dissassociate 'sexual' with 'dirty'. Burlesque probably only blurs that line, and I don't think that burlesque and bellydance are the same dance at all. I think you need different training for burlesque. HOWEVER. A burlesque show almost always has a bellydancer. At least, this was true after Sol Bloom's arrival on the scene. Or so I have been told.

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teela

I am wondering if the belly dance associated with burlesque was a bastartized form of the dance based more on fantasy than reality. Kind of like the girls who watch Shakira, imitate her and call it belly dance. Did it really resemble bellydance or was it something totally made up by an entertainer to get the attention? Just being thoughtful here

Brea

Teela- if that's the case then we are ALL dancing a bastardized style, because bellydance in America started there.

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teela

Brea: this may be my misconception but I was under the impression that belly dance arrived in the United States via another venue and was utilized by others afterwards. I did not realize that bellydance came to the states via burlesque shows.