Myths and Misconceptions

Brea · 02-08-2008, 07:59 PM

Hi,

I just wanted to ask what myths/misconceptions you have all heard about this dance, and whether you think there is any truth to any of them.

For instance, one thing I have heard is 'will belly dance make my belly bigger?' The germ of truth (for me) in this is that it certainly won't give you a six pack...I notice that mine is muscular and hard but in a curved-out, rather than curved-in, shape.

I am interested to see your replies!

KuteNurse · 02-09-2008, 12:37 AM

Well I will list the biggest belly dancing myth. That belly dancers are like strippers and perform only for men.

Aniseteph · 02-09-2008, 12:49 AM

Anything about prehistoric roots, temples, goddesses, priestesses, sacred mystic rites etc etc.

Brea · 02-09-2008, 01:23 AM

You GO, Anisteph!!!! That is the main problem I seem to have the most often.

What I am also interested in is: does this myth carry a grain of truth, do you think? And what would that be?

chryssanthi sahar · 02-09-2008, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniseteph

Anything about prehistoric roots, temples, goddesses, priestesses, sacred mystic rites etc etc.

Haha, I agree

Brea, I think there can be some truth in this stuff, this means, I don't find it improbable that there had existed an ancient form of belly dance in the Mediterranean and ancient Middle Eastern cultures. It can be that this ancient kind of belly dance was indeed a sacred dance, dedicated to some Goddesses or whatever. But the question for me is: what does it give me today? And what does it have to do with the modern forms of belly dance? My opinion is, that it doesn't give me anything to know that there existed an ancient belly dance and also that we will never know what differences and similarities could exist between the ancient and the modern belly dance, since there didn't exist videos and DVDs in ancient times

For me everything one can tell about ancient dances (not only belly dance) is pure speculation. Interesting but unrealistic.

Brea · 02-09-2008, 04:45 AM

Chryssanthi-

I totally agree. I have the same problem with studying Scotland and peoples' weird ideas about Druidism.

A question regarding the goddess issue: how do we teach this so it is unoffensive to students who have come to learn for that reason?

chryssanthi sahar · 02-09-2008, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brea

.
A question regarding the goddess issue: how do we teach this so it is unoffensive to students who have come to learn for that reason?

Just try to be objective and don't make fun of the matter. Just tell them that there are theories about that, but we cannot know for sure. And tell them that this is not your speciality. I think if they want to learn BD for this reason, you are the wrong teacher for them anyway, because they are looking for something different than you do. I believe that it is important to attract the right people to your classes, who are interested in your perspective of the dance.

Marya · 02-09-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryssanthi sahar

Haha, I agree

Brea, I think there can be some truth in this stuff, this means, I don't find it improbable that there had existed an ancient form of belly dance in the Mediterranean and ancient Middle Eastern cultures. It can be that this ancient kind of belly dance was indeed a sacred dance, dedicated to some Goddesses or whatever. But the question for me is: what does it give me today? And what does it have to do with the modern forms of belly dance? My opinion is, that it doesn't give me anything to know that there existed an ancient belly dance and also that we will never know what differences and similarities could exist between the ancient and the modern belly dance, since there didn't exist videos and DVDs in ancient times

For me everything one can tell about ancient dances (not only belly dance) is pure speculation. Interesting but unrealistic.

I have been thinking about this a lot actually. I just for the first time saw the Joseph Campbell interviews that were filmed in 1988. I was out of the country when they were aired on Public Television and I never saw them before although I had heard of Joseph Campbell.

While Joseph Campbell doesn't address Middle Eastern Dance he does talk about the Archetypes and the persistance and universality of myth and the role myth plays in our society. I started to think that the myths we encounter as Belly Dancers may or may not be true in the sense that they are historically accurate and can be proven by ancient records, but that Belly Dance somehow triggers a response in us that manifests these Archetypes, especially the Goddess one. We desperately want to be connected to our roots as far back as we can and Archetypes being basically a product of the uncouncious do not yield to logic or scholarship. The myths become true for an individual who needs them.

Coincidentally, I also watched again my video of Suhaila Salimpour's recreations of Bal Anat's dances. Jamilia Salimpour (Suhailia's Mother) named her troup after a Goddess, so we are starting out with myth from the very beginning.

The very first dance on the video is the "Birth Magic" dance with a long haired, topless, masked dancer undulating to a mizmar for way too long. The video also includes a snake dance, a basket dance, and some ethnic dances from Morroco, Tunisia and Turkey. Many of these theatricalized folk dances are still performed almost identically today but are thought to be completely authentic.

In these Bal Anat recreations are just about every myth that we still hear. The question I have is did Jamilia Salimpour create the first theatrical dances to represent these myths or did she encounter them elsewher? There is a lot of writing out there on women and healing through archetypes, for example "Women who run with the Wolves" by Clarissa Pinkola Estés "Daughters of the Goddess" by Wendy Griffin.

Jamilia herself acknowledges that although her troupe's Renaissance Pleasure Faire performances were perceived as "authentic" they were "half real and half hokum"

Given the persistance of this Archetype, I would guess that acknowledging the need for the myth then explaining that myths are stories to help us get through life and not history might be a better way to debunk the belief that the myths are history.

This is a bit of a ramble, but I am starting to think we are stuck with these myths because of the strong unconcious element.

Marya

Brea · 02-09-2008, 03:44 PM

Marya,

I do fear that we are stuck with them, both in bellydance and in Scottish cultural studies. I think that people persist in believing something that is true 'for them'. For instance, I have a tribal tattoo of Jesus on my arm. I am not a traditional Christian (seriously, you would NEVER guess). The tattoo is difficult to decipher, on purpose, because I don't want people making snap judgments about me based on my faith. When I tell them that it is a representation of Jesus, some of them absolutely refuse to see it and say that they prefer to see whatever it was they saw initially instead...because it is preferable to them, because images of Jesus are offensive to them. So even though it is a depiction of Jesus, and they know it to be so, they still would rather believe something untrue because it is more comfortable. (If you want to see the tattoo, click on my signature link)

I have also heard tell that the 'birthing' origin of bellydance is a myth. Any thoughts on this?

Aisha Azar · 02-09-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marya

I have been thinking about this a lot actually. I just for the first time saw the Joseph Campbell interviews that were filmed in 1988. I was out of the country when they were aired on Public Television and I never saw them before although I had heard of Joseph Campbell.

While Joseph Campbell doesn't address Middle Eastern Dance he does talk about the Archetypes and the persistance and universality of myth and the role myth plays in our society. I started to think that the myths we encounter as Belly Dancers may or may not be true in the sense that they are historically accurate and can be proven by ancient records, but that Belly Dance somehow triggers a response in us that manifests these Archetypes, especially the Goddess one. We desperately want to be connected to our roots as far back as we can and Archetypes being basically a product of the uncouncious do not yield to logic or scholarship. The myths become true for an individual who needs them.

Coincidentally, I also watched again my video of Suhaila Salimpour's recreations of Bal Anat's dances. Jamilia Salimpour (Suhailia's Mother) named her troup after a Goddess, so we are starting out with myth from the very beginning.

The very first dance on the video is the "Birth Magic" dance with a long haired, topless, masked dancer undulating to a mizmar for way too long. The video also includes a snake dance, a basket dance, and some ethnic dances from Morroco, Tunisia and Turkey. Many of these theatricalized folk dances are still performed almost identically today but are thought to be completely authentic.

In these Bal Anat recreations are just about every myth that we still hear. The question I have is did Jamilia Salimpour create the first theatrical dances to represent these myths or did she encounter them elsewher? There is a lot of writing out there on women and healing through archetypes, for example "Women who run with the Wolves" by Clarissa Pinkola Estés "Daughters of the Goddess" by Wendy Griffin.

Jamilia herself acknowledges that although her troupe's Renaissance Pleasure Faire performances were perceived as "authentic" they were "half real and half hokum"

Given the persistance of this Archetype, I would guess that acknowledging the need for the myth then explaining that myths are stories to help us get through life and not history might be a better way to debunk the belief that the myths are history.

This is a bit of a ramble, but I am starting to think we are stuck with these myths because of the strong unconcious element.

Marya

Dear Marya,
I was introduced to the work of Joseph Campbell through the Bill Moyers special on PBS. His wife was a dancer, though not a Middle Eastern dancer. I have since read several of his books as well. He does have a rather Jungian outlook on mythology and the Collective Unconscious, and explains it well in "The inner reaches of outer space" and other books. I very much admire him. I think he died a few years ago and his wife, if I remember correctly, died before him. I do cite Jamila and a few others for perpetuating myths that have no basis in fact, and for being the people who first made it okay to call any damn thing we want, "belly dance". It makes it so very difficult for rhe dance now in many ways, but years ago it was easy to see that it was going to lead to exactly what is taking place now, with stuff like "Bellynesian". I like Jamila as a person very much, but I am so glad that she finally came out with that in public.
Regards,
A'isha

02-08-2008, 07:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	Myths and Misconceptions Hi, I just wanted to ask what myths/misconceptions you have all heard about this dance, and whether you think there is any truth to any of them. For instance, one thing I have heard is 'will belly dance make my belly bigger?' The germ of truth (for me) in this is that it certainly won't give you a six pack...I notice that mine is muscular and hard but in a curved-out, rather than curved-in, shape. I am interested to see your replies! __________________ www.breamorgiane.com

02-09-2008, 01:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	You GO, Anisteph!!!! That is the main problem I seem to have the most often. What I am also interested in is: does this myth carry a grain of truth, do you think? And what would that be? __________________ www.breamorgiane.com

02-09-2008, 04:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	Chryssanthi- I totally agree. I have the same problem with studying Scotland and peoples' weird ideas about Druidism. A question regarding the goddess issue: how do we teach this so it is unoffensive to students who have come to learn for that reason? __________________ www.breamorgiane.com

02-09-2008, 03:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	Marya, I do fear that we are stuck with them, both in bellydance and in Scottish cultural studies. I think that people persist in believing something that is true 'for them'. For instance, I have a tribal tattoo of Jesus on my arm. I am not a traditional Christian (seriously, you would NEVER guess). The tattoo is difficult to decipher, on purpose, because I don't want people making snap judgments about me based on my faith. When I tell them that it is a representation of Jesus, some of them absolutely refuse to see it and say that they prefer to see whatever it was they saw initially instead...because it is preferable to them, because images of Jesus are offensive to them. So even though it is a depiction of Jesus, and they know it to be so, they still would rather believe something untrue because it is more comfortable. (If you want to see the tattoo, click on my signature link) I have also heard tell that the 'birthing' origin of bellydance is a myth. Any thoughts on this? __________________ www.breamorgiane.com

02-09-2008, 12:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
KuteNurse V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,986	Well I will list the biggest belly dancing myth. That belly dancers are like strippers and perform only for men.

02-09-2008, 12:49 AM	#3 (permalink)
Aniseteph V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sussex, England Posts: 1,703	Anything about prehistoric roots, temples, goddesses, priestesses, sacred mystic rites etc etc.