Something very interesting to discuss - Page 3

Gabi · 09-08-2006, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

Hi Gabi, One of the many reasons why i like this forum is because of the interesting discussions we have with one another. My personal belief that as we change as individuals and as a society we should look at outmoded traditions that don't uphold us as human beings. Traditions that worked in the 19th century are considered criminal today. Traditions like celebrating holidays with family, taking food to the sick and respecting your elders are apart of my culture(not that everyone adheres to it), these are righteous aspects that uphold and keeps the human thread weaving through us all. Thanks for your reply.
Yasmine

Makes sense - thanks :~D

Recnadocir · 09-08-2006, 07:58 AM

Agree, beautifully spoken, Yasmine. Any tradition that involves kindness, compassion, and giving should be preserved forever. And tradition in the performing arts must be preserved too, valued right alongside the bold experiments that create new vistas for performing artists and their audiences. On that note, I was in a hip hop dance studio not long ago, rehearsing for shows. Though I generally find the energy and ambience there annoying, one day I noticed some young teens watching a Debbie Reynolds dance number from one of her movies. I was very happy to see that they were enthralled by what they were watching, and very happy that the studio management provided the video for them to watch. Debbie, Gene, Fred, Cyd, even Misha now, are also part of the great dance tradition, along with traditional form ME dance, that must always be preserved.

Shanazel · 09-08-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recnadocir

Well the Indians are gambling impresarios these days and the cowboys, well, two words: "Brokeback Mountain." (please don't broadcast that I said that anyone, I have to traverse Wyoming in a few days).

As for the rest, I admire Aristotle, and Descartes, certainly. Nietsche took it way too far I think, and the Papacy, well, see previous "Brokeback Mountain" reference. Well put, anyway. And while I am socially liberal about many things, I like individualism, and the perception that I can still make my own destiny.

Beastly child, Brokeback Mountain was filmed in Alberta, Canada. We know the difference between cowboys and sheep herders in Wyoming. I will warn you, however, about a popular bumper sticker you will see here (I'd hate for you to see it without warning and possibly faint from embarassment while in transit): WYOMING: where men are men and sheep are nervous.

Dipali · 09-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amulya

It seems that westerners who borrow things from other cultures are committing "cultural imperialism" and thus must be meticulously respectful to the other culture, but if another culture borrows things from the west (or from each other) it can have all the freedom to express the material any way they want. Because 'the west doesn't need to be respected'.

Very interesting thread and all the postings., Now when we are referring to“ Other cultures” does it mean all the eastern cultures or just referring to the middle eastern culture. Every culture has a different approach and different level of acceptance. I have never been to the Middle East and am not sure an average Egyptian person would care one way or the other if belly dancers in America / Australia follow "Real Egyptian belly dance." I am lucky enough to travel a bit in Asia, Mainly Thailand and Singapore , I had many opportunities to closely observe their culture and social structures . lets start with India, I was born and brought up in India, Now this is an interesting country where lots of things do not make sense to anybody, including the Indians themselves, When it comes to culture things really start to get confusing, imagine a country with 23 national languages , More than 5000 different dialects , And uncountable tribes or sub cultures spread throughout the country, as much as all the love affection and tolerance goes on among each other, There are always feelings of insecurity about loosing their culture to another tribe, And there are many fights and disputes that happen in the situation where one culture gets threatened by another. On the other hand most cultures in India welcome foreign cultures, (or western culture) , If you have ever experienced India you will know how much appreciation you get when you wear something Indian, It actually doesn’t matter how you wear it but they will love you to pieces, with a proud feeling that somebody is trying to copy their culture.
Thailand is another very interesting country , If we can call a culture cosmetic , that would be Thailand’s culture. They love to please westerners by imitating the lifestyle. Some of the time they get it right, but most of the time they get the worse of Western Culture, Blame it on the popular media, or the Hollywood Brigade.

Singapore , weirdly weird , As much as they are proud of their heritage( The Malay , Chinese and the Indians) , But they all want to be a part of a western society, Its like Singaporeans are on a crusade to become the most politically correct country in the world. Then you go out and find you cant have chewing gum or you cant buy "Cosmopolitan " because its not good for citizens.

Conclusion every culture reacts differently when it comes to acceptance and toleration. We are so wrong when we judge other cultures by our culture, Most westerners think they understand other cultures, or its easy to understand somebodies culture, but many wars have proved this point so many times.

tim'ema · 09-24-2006, 09:25 AM

This topic is very "near and dear" to my heart!

I worked for many years in a small boutique bookshop, and our community is very liberal/alternate lifestyle/activist/organic/etc. This is a topic that we continually dealt with. Is a caucasian publishing a set of First Nations-inspired divination cards "appropriating" their culture? If we, as a store, sell Buddhist items as "knick-knacks" - not knowing anything about them - are we profiting off the trivialisation of a religion? How far do we take it? Do you have to prove you are of British descent before you can sing "Greensleeves"? Can only Christians put an angel on their Christmas tree?

I have strong opinions about this. Firstly, it presumes that a causasian/western/european-descendant person cannot perceive the inherent value or sacredness in the object in question and also presumes that it will not be treated with its due respect and veneration by that person. This is an understandable prejudice, considering that last few hundred years of world history - but it is nevertheless a prejudice. Prejudice is to "pre-judge", and unless one has sat down with the westerner in question and conversed with them at length on what the item/song/garb etc means to them, you cannot actually know that they are simply "hijacking" it. Perhaps this culture has truly "spoken" to them and they have awakened to a spiritual kinship.

Secondly, it also presumes that disrespect and/or the trivialisation of a culture's objects and aspects is done by foreigners to that culture, and that the people raised in a particular culture will, as a forgone conclusion, respect their own culture. That is not the case. Many people of non-western (if we agree to use that term for the purposes of this discussion) cultures degrade and trivialise their own culture for tourist dollars.

Thirdly, it disrespects the culture that is supposedly being "appropriated" and the people who live that culture every day. I am Canadian. I respect myself and I respect my culture. If you choose to denegrate, or belittle, or trivialise for your own profit the symbols of my country or culture, that does not change me. That does not change my culture. IF you respect a culture as strong and proud, respect it enough to feel assured that IF and when it is being belittled by the greedy or small-minded, it will survive.

Lastly, this position also presumes that "western-culture" is blue jeans and coca-cola. Hmmmm. My culture is not pop-culture. Canadians did not die at Lundy's Lane for music videos and glossy magazines.

Very often, I have been disturbed to notice that many (though obviously not all ! ) of the people who are most offended by what they perceive as "cultural appropriation" are people who refer to the "victimised" culture in the most condescending of tones. As though they were speaking of children who cannot stand up for themselves. I find this curious, for it demonstrates a lack of respect for the very culture they are demanding that others show respect for!

AT

Amulya · 09-24-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dipali

Very interesting thread and all the postings., Now when we are referring to“ Other cultures” does it mean all the eastern cultures or just referring to the middle eastern culture.

I think it was referring to 'other cultures' in general, not specifically Middle Eastern cultures.

09-08-2006, 07:58 AM	#22 (permalink)
Recnadocir Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: La La Land Posts: 466	Agree, beautifully spoken, Yasmine. Any tradition that involves kindness, compassion, and giving should be preserved forever. And tradition in the performing arts must be preserved too, valued right alongside the bold experiments that create new vistas for performing artists and their audiences. On that note, I was in a hip hop dance studio not long ago, rehearsing for shows. Though I generally find the energy and ambience there annoying, one day I noticed some young teens watching a Debbie Reynolds dance number from one of her movies. I was very happy to see that they were enthralled by what they were watching, and very happy that the studio management provided the video for them to watch. Debbie, Gene, Fred, Cyd, even Misha now, are also part of the great dance tradition, along with traditional form ME dance, that must always be preserved. __________________ http://a537.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...0267e2f1c0.jpg *Nos es in Hollywood , quod vos es non!*

09-24-2006, 09:25 AM	#25 (permalink)
tim'ema Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Western Canada Posts: 141	This topic is very "near and dear" to my heart! I worked for many years in a small boutique bookshop, and our community is very liberal/alternate lifestyle/activist/organic/etc. This is a topic that we continually dealt with. Is a caucasian publishing a set of First Nations-inspired divination cards "appropriating" their culture? If we, as a store, sell Buddhist items as "knick-knacks" - not knowing anything about them - are we profiting off the trivialisation of a religion? How far do we take it? Do you have to prove you are of British descent before you can sing "Greensleeves"? Can only Christians put an angel on their Christmas tree? I have strong opinions about this. Firstly, it presumes that a causasian/western/european-descendant person cannot perceive the inherent value or sacredness in the object in question and also presumes that it will not be treated with its due respect and veneration by that person. This is an understandable prejudice, considering that last few hundred years of world history - but it is nevertheless a prejudice. Prejudice is to "pre-judge", and unless one has sat down with the westerner in question and conversed with them at length on what the item/song/garb etc means to them, you cannot actually know that they are simply "hijacking" it. Perhaps this culture has truly "spoken" to them and they have awakened to a spiritual kinship. Secondly, it also presumes that disrespect and/or the trivialisation of a culture's objects and aspects is done by foreigners to that culture, and that the people raised in a particular culture will, as a forgone conclusion, respect their own culture. That is not the case. Many people of non-western (if we agree to use that term for the purposes of this discussion) cultures degrade and trivialise their own culture for tourist dollars. Thirdly, it disrespects the culture that is supposedly being "appropriated" and the people who live that culture every day. I am Canadian. I respect myself and I respect my culture. If you choose to denegrate, or belittle, or trivialise for your own profit the symbols of my country or culture, that does not change me. That does not change my culture. IF you respect a culture as strong and proud, respect it enough to feel assured that IF and when it is being belittled by the greedy or small-minded, it will survive. Lastly, this position also presumes that "western-culture" is blue jeans and coca-cola. Hmmmm. My culture is not pop-culture. Canadians did not die at Lundy's Lane for music videos and glossy magazines. Very often, I have been disturbed to notice that many (though obviously not all ! ) of the people who are most offended by what they perceive as "cultural appropriation" are people who refer to the "victimised" culture in the most condescending of tones. As though they were speaking of children who cannot stand up for themselves. I find this curious, for it demonstrates a lack of respect for the very culture they are demanding that others show respect for! AT __________________ My FructMal site My Blog