Dipali

Last night I watched a programme called "Women Of The Holy Kingdom". A documentary made by Sharmeen Obaid' about the women who live and the emerging movements in Saudi Arabia, some of the things I was expecting to see and hear as usual (like when those lame religious mullahs talk about women without making any common sense just pure dribble etc etc ) but what was astonishing are some facts and inside knowledge of women living in Saudi Arabia , in a positive way.

I was amazed by the fact that most restaurants are off limits to women, No you cant phone and ask for a home delivery, Only men can do that, Also you need permission from your husband father or who ever the male figure around you for anything and everything, Even going to Uni and sit for the exam you need permission. Women lead a life of second class citizens in Saudi Arabia, at least in our eyes . They are prohibited from driving , not allowed to sit with men out in the open unless its somebody from your family, and always wear a abya because religious police are everywhere to control the society , and if they see you without it, I don't know what can happen to you.But what was fascinating was to see the raise of women's life in Saudi Arabia with the help of the Government and the Royal family and some very well meaning men) Ok here are some facts ..

1, 50 percent of all uni graduate in Saudi Arabia are women.
2. 5 percent of all the work force are made up of women.
3. 50 percent of weddings end up in divorce but the males get to keep
the child if you have one.
4. And in their first ever local election 3 women filed their
nominations, This bit threw the religious clerics absolute in fear. And after a few months because of the pressure the government declared no women are allowed to vote.

I was really impressed to hear some random students interviewed from college /Uni , They appeared speaking such good English and their outlook of life and knowledge is also very very good.(Can I say here better than the average western girl) Some women /girls want a dramatic change in Saudi society , some are just happy the way its happening and surprisingly some ladies are just happy to live under the male in current situation. I found some of the things are quite contradictory like on one hand the government is trying to promote job/employment and education for the girls on the other hand they still firmly believe , women don't have the same decision power as men. They are trying to introduce democracy in small doses but prohibit any gathering of more than 20 persons. Its almost looks like the Government is willing to move a bit forward regarding womens freedom and other issues but Religious clercics are just not happy or ready for it. Except one guy, I cannot remember the name who openly thinks Women can be as good as men in Saudi society , he is also a cleric.

Their favourite TV programme is Tash -na - tash which is a piss take of their own society and the lives of women. Its like a cult series or a slapstick approach to the society, I believe when people can start laughing and criticise themselves it's a good sign to move forward.
Overall you can feel and see things have really started to move now, at its
own pace but its happening.

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Zorba

Meanwhile here in the US, we have our own driveling clerics who want go back to that kind of society.

__________________
-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
http://www.doubleveil.net
"There is nothing sadder than a veil, that is for sale."

da Sage

Forget voting and driving.

Women in Saudi Arabia cannot even arrange their own medical treatment, or file their own police reports. I wish I had the link where it says that women who want to file domestic abuse reports, must have their husbands do it for them.

There were posters in the bus shelters near my university, advertising free tuition, room, and board at the King Saud University (I think that was the name) for Engineering. I investigated further (I was thinking cultural exchange), and learned that women are not allowed to enroll in engineering (it is a male field).

The KSA is fascinating, because their upper class has incredible wealth, free education....and those crippling restrictions on women that seem to belong to another century.

Is the divorce rate really 50 percent? That seems very high for such a traditional country. Maybe they are not all "real" marriages, hmmm?

lizaj

But of course they are friends of the West!!!!!
Ummm is there a reason that we 2 nations are prepared to be friendly with a despotic,repressive, terrorist-producing society?

Lydia dubai

holy kingdom.....yesterday somebody said something to me when just chatting around about things..,,..god did not make kings and queens they made themselfs kings and queens.....

Aisha Azar

Dear Gang,
My best friend is a "Woman of the Holy Kingdom", and she has both good and bad things to say.

Re university graduates- She is a business degree from a prestigious university in Saudi. The classrooms are segregated and often the girls do not have a teacher in the classroom if he is male, but he is televised to the females. Probably the opposite is true for men.

Re husbands keeping the children if there is a divorce- This is an Islamic mandate and true in any Islamic country or in any Islamic relationship for that matter. Usually the younger kids stay with their mothers anyway, but they do belong legally to their father. It was the same way here in the U.S. until pretty recently. In Victorian times, here, women had even less rights than Saudi women, who are allowed to at least own their own property and buy and sell without male interference..... in religious theory anyway...


In my own experience, I find that many wealthy and even middle class Saudi women are pretty spoiled on a lot of levels. They can't drive, but have a driver, any time day or night at the beck and call. One time I was staying in the Seattle area at the home of one of the Saudi guys who is vaguely related to the royal family. He had to stay up all night entertaining this prince from Qatar and he got to bed about 7 AM. His sister called at 9 AM and told him she needed to go and register for her French lesson, would he come and take her. Since it is HIS responsibility to see that she gets what she needs and she needed a ride, he went. I have witnessed a lot of this kind of behavior in Saudi families. I have even benefited from it myself. When in the company of Saudi males, I have never been allowed to pay for so much as a candy bar. They consider it their responsibility to take care of females.


Re medical treatment- It is truly hideous that women can not access their own medical care. It is every bit as hideous here in the United States. My daughter is too poor to afford some surgery she desperately needs and will probably have to wait until she is in dire emergent need before the state will give her some half hearted care. Last time they made her wait, she had to have 3 feet of her intestine removed, so its not some little thing I am talking about. Her father and I are also not wealthy enough to pay out of pocket for her medical needs. I see no difference in the ugliness of the two situations.


Saudi society has its own sets of problems, not the least being extremely high unemployment so that people who never had to work before are now going out to get menial jobs. the government is trying to go through a process called "Saudi-ization" in English, in which they are trying to make sure their people become more self-sufficient and are trying to get rid of a lot of expatriate workers. (I forget the Arab term for it. A couple of years ago I helped a Saudi guy get his thesis in order and cleaned up, and this process was the subject of his Master's thesis.) In the process, women are getting more jobs, but they pay hell a lot of times. For example, women who work in banks or other situations where they work with male colleagues are often gossiped about in horrible ways and and their reputations are ruined.

Medical fields seem to be somewhat more advance. I had a friend who is gone back home now and she has worked int he medical field for most of her adult life. She wanted to become an administrator and her husband, who is a true Muslim and believes in women's right to work and be educated as the Prophet Mohamed (Peace be on him) mandated. He took care of the kids after his degree was finished in order that she could get hers, though he really wanted to go home and start his own business.

Anyway, good and bad everywhere you go.
Regards,
A'isha

Aisha Azar

Dear Dipali,
This is a little off topic I know.
You asked me to let you know when my Egyptian journal was up on my site.
It is in the library now, though the spacing is a little funny in some spots. I will try to get in touch with Terry to fix it if possible. If you are still interested, it is at www.raqsazar in the library, "Welcome in Egypt" parts one 1 and 2.
Regards,
A'isha

Caroline_afifi

What I find interesting is that every year my mum in law goes to Omra and has been to mecca to do Haj many times with other members of the family. Hotels rooms with twin beds sleep 6 to 8 people (and sometimesd more) and charge inflated prices per person (rather than room price)and food stalls and sellers food and drinks at very inflated prices.
I will not make any further comment.

Dipali

I am sure Da Sage, I heard it correctly, I wrote the post while I was
watching the programme. Probably we should ask Gypsy and Aisha Azahar
as they are the two with most Saudi connection in here.


Dear Lizaz for most western countries friendship depends on how much
transaction will take place between two countries. No wonder we are so
silent about Sudan problem, or it was with Bosnia.Taliban also
used to be quite a friendly bunch of people to Western countries when
the Soviet took over Afganistan.

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Dipali

.

But Aisha, not all Saudi women are fortunate to be wealthy and
spoiled, Some women genuinely need to drive or want to drive, but they
can not. because clearly what their religious police think about a
women driver.
Also benefited by male company , true it's a custom for most Asian
cultures too, I don't feel good when I go out with a female friend and
she pay for my coffee, I would rather pay for both of us, nothing to
do with power or money, its about custom.

.


Aisha again I see a big difference between those two events. Your
daughter have all the rights to go to a hospital or take care of her
medical treatment when she can, here it's the problem with her own
financial situations, but in KSA its not the same case , they just
cannot go and buy their headache tablets because the law don,t allow
them to. Whether they have money or don't have any money.

I am not being negative here, I am fully aware that every country go
through its own social injustice and mistreatment over its citizen,
and also they recover when it's the right time, KSA right now is
going through its first phase but the process could be lengthy if
religion play such a big role on their government.

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