Sensibilities and sensitivities when in Egypt - Page 3

karena · 07-12-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

Christians are not expected to cover their hair so this is not nessesary to do so and you are not showing respect by doing this, unless it is to a place were you are required too (and there are not many). Most visits to Mosques do not require covering your head either.

Now that's interesting. Just to check my understanding, is the distinction that covering the hair is a religious symbol therefore if you are not of that religion it is not appropriate? I had thought it was more similar to entering churches in places like Sicilly where you have to cover your arms else a nun comes and tuts at you (and then removes you). So would covering the head as a christian (or any other religion) entering a mosque be more akin to a muslim putting on a crucifix to enter a church?

Aisha Azar · 07-12-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydia dubai

Dear Caroline...in the UAE it is very differant than in Egypt...i worked in egypt for 1 and half years before i came to the UAE..i also have a home just outside Cairo so i do visit Egypt still regulair...In the Uae it is very differant then in Egypt woman are realy protected here ofcourse their are extreme cases but i live here sindts 1986...the only big trouble i hade was trying to save a chimp from miserable life it almost caused me everything i worked for...but beside that i never hade a problem,man dont behave like in egypt it is differant they are more polite if you give the signal,,i dont want,,just by giving him a nasty look its over...if he will still not back off i only open my mouth and tell him loudly that i dont want and he will very fast go away...i dont cover my hair ..but also never wear miniskirts or bare sholders ..not to much makeup and no tide fitting clothes...i honestly can not remember the day that i was having troubles beiing in the uae aslong you are trying to be senseable its fine ..i feel much safer here than in the country where i was born...i can not enter the mosk if i dont cover my hair do...Dubai is very open and girls are out and about in shorts all over the place,but i dont live in Dubai but in a smaller city outside...i have to be honest i dont agree with girls goiing to the mall in shorts ..it is after all a islamic country and i think you must little bit try to remember that...than the good part is ladys are always first like in the post office i dont qeu i can go strait to the front,so aswell in many other places...this is to prevent ladys be between men and perhaps beiing ,,brushed,,lol...so it is nicely arranged overhere...yes Ai.sha i agree you have to be carefull when you are a western woman people think you are easy goiing...i dont feel it aslong i dont mention that i am a dancer...that is why nobody in the area where i live knows they all think i am just a sport teacher because that is my morningjob...so they see me going with my sportbag and trainingsuit...but yes sometimes i do wanna screem and say yes so i am a dancer what do you want ???...LOL we cant have it all i geuss...but i do love this crazy sandpit and its a small price to pay for all the joy i have found here with my job as a dancer ...i am laughing when i come home and think another show llaalala and nobody caught me !!Things have changed lately do, construction as you know is booming in the UAE GEUSS WHAT Egyptians are coming now to build and work in construction overhere,keep my fingers crossed !! dont get me wrong do i love egypt there is only 1 egypt and we all love it whit all its hangups....oops long mail Sorry better go
Lydia

Dear Lydia,
You are such an asset to this forum! We are indeed lucky to have you. Speaking of Egyptian construction workers, when I was there I took pictures of construction work since my husband is in heavy construction. I took one photo that I just loved. There these two guys sitting on a pile of bricks smoking cigarettes, about 5 floors into the sky, with a lot of the wooden braces everywhere around them. (I was driving by in a car and hoped that I was sneaky about taking the photo and I am sure they did not see me, but I just could not resist. I knew my husband would love it.
Regards,
A'isha

da Sage · 07-12-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karena

Now that's interesting. Just to check my understanding, is the distinction that covering the hair is a religious symbol therefore if you are not of that religion it is not appropriate? I had thought it was more similar to entering churches in places like Sicilly where you have to cover your arms else a nun comes and tuts at you (and then removes you). So would covering the head as a christian (or any other religion) entering a mosque be more akin to a muslim putting on a crucifix to enter a church?

I was told not to go sleeveless to a particular Catholic church in town, but I did anyway (briefly!). As it was hot hot summer, I took my jacket off as I sat in the back of the church, just until I cooled off. I put it back on when I was comfortable again. I thought maybe my friend who told me was trying to pull my leg, but I wasn't sure. Maybe I should have taken her warning more seriously!

I think it is necessary to cover your head as you enter a mosque, but maybe Caroline Afifi means that if you do it on the street, you look like a "poser"?

Caroline_afifi · 07-12-2008, 10:46 PM

I can see where this is getting a little confusing.

You can wear western style hats no problem. Poeole wear baseball caps etc. and my mum in law adores hats over her head scarf. Christians are not required to cover their hair and I have been to christain weddings in Egypt too and nobody covered their hair.
If you are going to a Mosque you maybe required to but it depends. I took a group to Mohammed Ali Mosque in April and we just needed to cover our legs, cleavage and shoulders etc. tours of old Mosques is a little different from enerting a Mosque for other reasons. Always ask before going what the dress code is.
A head wrap to keep the sun off your head is fine too. It is just about understanding the need to cover for religous reasons versus practical ones and not confusing the two.
A'isha mentioned that government websites have some guidence about dress and so do travel guide books. It seems to me that many choose to ignore this.
Topless sunbathing in thongs is very common in red sea resorts. Many of the workers who work in these places come from the countryside so you can imagine their reaction. It is especially hard during the month of Ramadan as any flickering sexual or bad thought breaks the fast. It is very unfortunate for the workers around this time. Ramadan will be in September and it will be 10 years before it moves back into spring and winter time.
Luxor also has a very unfortunate sex tourism scene.
Egypt has a great tolerance of tourist culture as most of the economy depends on it.

khanjar · 07-13-2008, 11:29 AM

Ok, that is dress, but what about the jewellery that people wear, what is not acceptable in Islamic countries. I refer to religious symbolism as symbols of one's faith.

I heard once of a guy who worked in Dubai,had been doing so for a couple of years, he was ejected from the country apparently because he removed his shirt on the beach to reveal the pagan star/pentagram tattooed on his shoulder. Apparently the wrong person saw it and he was told to leave.

Personal jewellery can be removed, tattoos can be covered, but what is likely to cause offence, it is helpful to know as what is not seen in the west can make a big statement elsewhere.

Aisha Azar · 07-13-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanjar

Ok, that is dress, but what about the jewellery that people wear, what is not acceptable in Islamic countries. I refer to religious symbolism as symbols of one's faith.

I heard once of a guy who worked in Dubai,had been doing so for a couple of years, he was ejected from the country apparently because he removed his shirt on the beach to reveal the pagan star/pentagram tattooed on his shoulder. Apparently the wrong person saw it and he was told to leave.

Personal jewellery can be removed, tattoos can be covered, but what is likely to cause offence, it is helpful to know as what is not seen in the west can make a big statement elsewhere.

Dear Khanjar,
How much does a pentagram look like a Star of David? Probably not such a good idea in a Muslim country????

Caroline mentions topless sunbathing. In one of the National Geographic years ago they had a photo of a western woman sitting on a beach topless in Egypt. There was a working Egyptian man carrying something past her and the look on his face was not of lust or interest; it was utter disgust.
Regards,
A'isha

masrawy · 07-13-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanjar

but what is likely to cause offence, it is helpful to know as what is not seen in the west can make a big statement elsewhere.

hello to all
Here are some things on the top of my head that will drive Egyptian crazy

1.Showing the soul of your shoes.
2.looking at someone's food in restaurants.
3.sharing food at restaurants.
4.asking for doggy bag at restaurants.
5.looking at the babies/children of people at the street (you don't know) or giving compliments of how cute they look.
6.Chewing gum.

lizaj · 07-13-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydia dubai

Dear Caroline...in the UAE it is very differant than in Egypt...i worked in egypt for 1 and half years before i came to the UAE..i also have a home just outside Cairo so i do visit Egypt still regulair...In the Uae it is very differant then in Egypt woman are realy protected here ofcourse their are extreme cases but i live here sindts 1986...the only big trouble i hade was trying to save a chimp from miserable life it almost caused me everything i worked for...but beside that i never hade a problem,man dont behave like in egypt it is differant they are more polite if you give the signal,,i dont want,,just by giving him a nasty look its over...if he will still not back off i only open my mouth and tell him loudly that i dont want and he will very fast go away...i dont cover my hair ..but also never wear miniskirts or bare sholders ..not to much makeup and no tide fitting clothes...i honestly can not remember the day that i was having troubles beiing in the uae aslong you are trying to be senseable its fine ..i feel much safer here than in the country where i was born...i can not enter the mosk if i dont cover my hair do...Dubai is very open and girls are out and about in shorts all over the place,but i dont live in Dubai but in a smaller city outside...i have to be honest i dont agree with girls goiing to the mall in shorts ..it is after all a islamic country and i think you must little bit try to remember that...than the good part is ladys are always first like in the post office i dont qeu i can go strait to the front,so aswell in many other places...this is to prevent ladys be between men and perhaps beiing ,,brushed,,lol...so it is nicely arranged overhere...yes Ai.sha i agree you have to be carefull when you are a western woman people think you are easy goiing...i dont feel it aslong i dont mention that i am a dancer...that is why nobody in the area where i live knows they all think i am just a sport teacher because that is my morningjob...so they see me going with my sportbag and trainingsuit...but yes sometimes i do wanna screem and say yes so i am a dancer what do you want ???...LOL we cant have it all i geuss...but i do love this crazy sandpit and its a small price to pay for all the joy i have found here with my job as a dancer ...i am laughing when i come home and think another show llaalala and nobody caught me !!Things have changed lately do, construction as you know is booming in the UAE GEUSS WHAT Egyptians are coming now to build and work in construction overhere,keep my fingers crossed !! dont get me wrong do i love egypt there is only 1 egypt and we all love it whit all its hangups....oops long mail Sorry better go
Lydia

To tell the truth I don't like seeing people her in the UK wearing shorts ( I mean the very short variety) while shopping. I also hate to see bikini tops on the main street ,and saw that for the first time last summer. There used to be all kinds of unenforced rules about dress and manners that made us what we were. Upper class and working class..whoever polite clothes polite people.

I hate seeing little girls dressed as porn stars and tacky T shirts and high heels, I hate vulgar messages on T shirts but hey ho old fashioned me ,I bemoan track suits and football shirts worn by the sorts of folks who obviously find it a problem to get off the setee in the first place

lizaj · 07-13-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

I can see where this is getting a little confusing.

You can wear western style hats no problem. Poeole wear baseball caps etc. and my mum in law adores hats over her head scarf. Christians are not required to cover their hair and I have been to christain weddings in Egypt too and nobody covered their hair.
If you are going to a Mosque you maybe required to but it depends. I took a group to Mohammed Ali Mosque in April and we just needed to cover our legs, cleavage and shoulders etc. tours of old Mosques is a little different from enerting a Mosque for other reasons. Always ask before going what the dress code is.
A head wrap to keep the sun off your head is fine too. It is just about understanding the need to cover for religous reasons versus practical ones and not confusing the two.
A'isha mentioned that government websites have some guidence about dress and so do travel guide books. It seems to me that many choose to ignore this.
Topless sunbathing in thongs is very common in red sea resorts. Many of the workers who work in these places come from the countryside so you can imagine their reaction. It is especially hard during the month of Ramadan as any flickering sexual or bad thought breaks the fast. It is very unfortunate for the workers around this time. Ramadan will be in September and it will be 10 years before it moves back into spring and winter time.
Luxor also has a very unfortunate sex tourism scene.
Egypt has a great tolerance of tourist culture as most of the economy depends on it.

If I wear a hat or scarf in Egypt it's a avoid sunstroke and to stop my bleach bolnde hair from going white....no thank you to grey and white. I never found I had to put something on my head visting a mosque but we were told to cover shoulders , wear full length trousers and have a discrete neckline. However I followed all the rules in Turkish Nicosia and still had a twinkly eyed old man pat me on the bum as I contemplated the beauty of the building.
A lot of dress codes I find are based in practical as much as moral issues.
I do like to wear a loose top on holiday ..a tunic or kaftan and I'm not trying to ape the locals (mine resemble UK high st too much for that anyway) but to keep cool expecially during a hot ( and sweaty) flush!

Lydia dubai · 07-13-2008, 06:34 PM

Ok, that is dress, but what about the jewellery that people wear, what is not acceptable in Islamic countries. I refer to religious symbolism as symbols of one's faith.

I heard once of a guy who worked in Dubai,had been doing so for a couple of years, he was ejected from the country apparently because he removed his shirt on the beach to reveal the pagan star/pentagram tattooed on his shoulder. Apparently the wrong person saw it and he was told to leave.

Personal jewellery can be removed, tattoos can be covered, but what is likely to cause offence, it is helpful to know as what is not seen in the west can make a big statement elsewhere.
__________________
I am a dream to some...and a nightmare to others.

Khanjar...sorry i still dont do this copy and pasting correct suposse to be pink like others are having it LOL
Anyway....Davidstar is still a forbidden and sensetive symbol in the middle east...perhaps the pentagram was mistaken or misunderstood for it...Believe it or not untill today when poeple come to work or live here his or her papers has to pass the israelboycott office to make sure she ,he has no links there or did never visit Israel and even for me every year when i sign new contracts for my workplaces my papers are still goiing treu that office...its a very sensetive issue it has nothing to do with the tatoo but the meaning itself...i remember when i went to iraq for the first time,the consul that issued my visa in italy ask me to remove my pentagram from my necless for my own safety.....

07-12-2008, 10:46 PM	#24 (permalink)
Caroline_afifi Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 866	I can see where this is getting a little confusing. You can wear western style hats no problem. Poeole wear baseball caps etc. and my mum in law adores hats over her head scarf. Christians are not required to cover their hair and I have been to christain weddings in Egypt too and nobody covered their hair. If you are going to a Mosque you maybe required to but it depends. I took a group to Mohammed Ali Mosque in April and we just needed to cover our legs, cleavage and shoulders etc. tours of old Mosques is a little different from enerting a Mosque for other reasons. Always ask before going what the dress code is. A head wrap to keep the sun off your head is fine too. It is just about understanding the need to cover for religous reasons versus practical ones and not confusing the two. A'isha mentioned that government websites have some guidence about dress and so do travel guide books. It seems to me that many choose to ignore this. Topless sunbathing in thongs is very common in red sea resorts. Many of the workers who work in these places come from the countryside so you can imagine their reaction. It is especially hard during the month of Ramadan as any flickering sexual or bad thought breaks the fast. It is very unfortunate for the workers around this time. Ramadan will be in September and it will be 10 years before it moves back into spring and winter time. Luxor also has a very unfortunate sex tourism scene. Egypt has a great tolerance of tourist culture as most of the economy depends on it.

07-13-2008, 11:29 AM	#25 (permalink)
khanjar Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: England Posts: 314	Ok, that is dress, but what about the jewellery that people wear, what is not acceptable in Islamic countries. I refer to religious symbolism as symbols of one's faith. I heard once of a guy who worked in Dubai,had been doing so for a couple of years, he was ejected from the country apparently because he removed his shirt on the beach to reveal the pagan star/pentagram tattooed on his shoulder. Apparently the wrong person saw it and he was told to leave. Personal jewellery can be removed, tattoos can be covered, but what is likely to cause offence, it is helpful to know as what is not seen in the west can make a big statement elsewhere. __________________ I am a dream to some...and a nightmare to others.

07-13-2008, 06:34 PM	#30 (permalink)
Lydia dubai V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dubai United arab emirates Posts: 1,260	Ok, that is dress, but what about the jewellery that people wear, what is not acceptable in Islamic countries. I refer to religious symbolism as symbols of one's faith. I heard once of a guy who worked in Dubai,had been doing so for a couple of years, he was ejected from the country apparently because he removed his shirt on the beach to reveal the pagan star/pentagram tattooed on his shoulder. Apparently the wrong person saw it and he was told to leave. Personal jewellery can be removed, tattoos can be covered, but what is likely to cause offence, it is helpful to know as what is not seen in the west can make a big statement elsewhere. __________________ I am a dream to some...and a nightmare to others. Khanjar...sorry i still dont do this copy and pasting correct suposse to be pink like others are having it LOL Anyway....Davidstar is still a forbidden and sensetive symbol in the middle east...perhaps the pentagram was mistaken or misunderstood for it...Believe it or not untill today when poeple come to work or live here his or her papers has to pass the israelboycott office to make sure she ,he has no links there or did never visit Israel and even for me every year when i sign new contracts for my workplaces my papers are still goiing treu that office...its a very sensetive issue it has nothing to do with the tatoo but the meaning itself...i remember when i went to iraq for the first time,the consul that issued my visa in italy ask me to remove my pentagram from my necless for my own safety.....