Suheir

Mark_Balahadia

Ya 2albi, thanks for the article! I was once asked to have an Urfi marriage by an ex

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Caroline_afifi

This is not 'new' news, this has been going on for a long time. Hotels have not accepted this contract for over five years now. It is accpeted within families but not outside. It has been wildly abused, especially regarding marriage to tourists. I am glad they are taking it further. It should be totally abolished. However the flip side is this.. if you make a mistake in the marriage then you can end it and it is not worth the paper it is written on. If you do it the proper way then the divorce is a little more comlpex.
There are really too many horror stories to be heard about Western women and Egyptian men. There are some very succesful marriages and I have one, but there are tooo many disasters were women have been robbed of their life savings and left with nothing. I hear of it all the time.

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

Hi Suheir, Thanks for posting the informative article! Once again it appears that women are getting the short end of the deal here!
Although the article didn't indicate this, is is possible to have a simple wedding in Egypt without all the pomp and circumstance?
Yasmine

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PriscillaAdum

You know, just the idea of an Egyptian man with a sudden interest in a western tourist rings alarm bells to me.
Why is it never the wealthy, well educated and successful Egyptian men who want to marry western tourists or even western women in general? Egyptian men who have the means to afford a proper marriage, would likely prefer a nice Egyptian girl who has the same customs and more importantly the same religion.
I think it's noteworthy that alot of the men who insist on urfi marriages to westerners are poor, not so well educated and perhaps looking for a green card.

Regards
Priscilla

Caroline_afifi

I agree with alot of your points but Egyptian men who can afford to have a proper wedding do marry western women. My husband was a Major in the Police and his father was a general in the Military (and was so in the 6th October war). My husband laughs at me and and calls me Falleha because I am from Liverpool! (as a joke of course).
We had 2 very nice weddings, one at a Villa near Ismailya and a big one at the Nile Hilton, and I do know others who enjoy the same.
It is men in tourism and the bazaars who you have to be the most careful of and even Egyptians often find is hard to stomach their mentality. We do have to be careful not to typecast everyone though.

PriscillaAdum

I think I should reword that....Why do wealthy Egyptian men SELDOM marry westerners. I know of course that such marriages do occur and there are western women married to very educated egyptian men. I meant that it's not the norm. On the other hand, I've heard all kinds of stories from friends who've travelled to Egypt, of fervent marriage proposals and declarations of love from taxi drivers, the hotel doorman, and shop owners at khan el khalili.

Regards
Priscilla

gypsy8522

I was going to come back and write here, but you took the words out of my mouth!

Marriage in Egypt is all about one thing: social class. In Egypt we never use the word "zawag" marriage or "khotooba" engagement except later on, in earlier phases we say "nasab" ( doesn't really translate to english), and this usually involves approval of the WHOLE familly. That is why a well educated, succesful man would want to marry a girl with similar attributes, why go for the Western woman (zero nasab) when he can marry a nice, well educated girl, who shares the same cultural values and religion, and who is lets say the daughter of an ex-defense minister or a well known familly... when a son or daughter goes home and tells the parents there is someone the first thing the parents will ask "from what family?", the second/last name is very very important, that's why in wedding invitations you always see the bride and groom name in microscopic font, while the names of the mother/father AND their professions (i.e. doctor, minister, engineer) and both family names are written in bold.

The problem, especially right now because the economy is down and with high unemployment rates, it is not always possible for a young Egyptian man to find an Egyptian or even Arabic bride, a lot of girls especially those getting married for the first time, they ask for very high dowries and other things that men most men cannot afford, while western women usually will just accept whatever because they don't have all these cultural norms. While I sympathize with these women because some (I said some) Egyptian men can be extremly manipulative and will get to them under the name of love just to get a green card or a way out of the country or whatever, I feel they should take part of the blame for not having common sense (Waiter, poor, 15 years younger than you, all these are not good signs).


In my opinion Orfi marriage is not a real marriage. By Islamic law, it is required that a marriage be PUBLIC for it to be legal. When you are "married" but keep it hidden from all your friends, family and you don't have anything registered whether with a ma2zoon or in court, how does this constitute a marriage?

By the way, it doesn't say in the article, but after the Hind Hennawi case a draft law was issued which makes DNA testing mandatory in paternity cases. I still don't see why girls would even do this to themselves, because with orfi it's always the girl who gets screwed over in the end.

Caroline_afifi

[quote=gypsy8522;71454]I was going to come back and write here, but you took the words out of my mouth!

Marriage in Egypt is all about one thing: social class. In Egypt we never use the word "zawag" marriage or "khotooba" engagement except later on, in earlier phases we say "nasab" ( doesn't really translate to english), and this usually involves approval of the WHOLE familly. That is why a well educated, succesful man would want to marry a girl with similar attributes, why go for the Western woman (zero nasab) when he can marry a nice, well educated girl, who shares the same cultural values and religion, and who is lets say the daughter of an ex-defense minister or a well known familly... when a son or daughter goes home and tells the parents there is someone the first thing the parents will ask "from what family?", the second/last name is very very important, that's why in wedding invitations you always see the bride and groom name in microscopic font, while the names of the mother/father AND their professions (i.e. doctor, minister, engineer) and both family names are written in bold.

The problem, especially right now because the economy is down and with high unemployment rates, it is not always possible for a young Egyptian man to find an Egyptian or even Arabic bride, a lot of girls especially those getting married for the first time, they ask for very high dowries and other things that men most men cannot afford, while western women usually will just accept whatever because they don't have all these cultural norms. While I sympathize with these women because some (I said some) Egyptian men can be extremly manipulative and will get to them under the name of love just to get a green card or a way out of the country or whatever, I feel they should take part of the blame for not having common sense (Waiter, poor, 15 years younger than you, all these are not good signs).


I do see your point but it is over generalised in places.
Both of our families agree to the whole thing because my husband wanted a wife who would share his interests in life and would not be narrow minded. I did not ask for a dowry but i did get jewellery worth a great deal of money and a wedding to match. I know others who have had similar. We do things and enjoy life in a way that my husband would never expect from an Egyptian woman living in Egypt. His family are religous but secure in themselves and their position in life. They are extremely nice people who care for their sons happiness. Life is not always in straight lines and there are frequently exceptions to the rule.
There are attitudes towards women in the UK who marry foreign men and they are often seen as being inferior because of this. Why would a British woman with her own business and a good education want to marry a foreigner when she can marry a nice white British man? Maybe because she is fed up with narrow minded people too.

gypsy8522

I see where you're coming from, but you can't really compare British society with Egyptian culture which is very deeply rooted in traditions and religion. Of course everything I say here is a generalization and there are always exceptions to the rule, but I am speaking about marriage in Egypt IN GENERAL, if I was to speak about individualistic human traits, that would be a different story. However, marriage in Egypt is not only about individuals (as it is in the European countries), we still have this issue of the family and society that has to be taken care of.