Greek Chifteteli

Maria_Aya · 07-07-2006, 07:26 AM

As we say in Greece "if you dont adore your house it will fall on your head" lol

Maria Aya

samsied · 07-10-2006, 05:19 PM

Hi Maria! I have a question about Greek Chifteteli.

I recently downloaded two songs from emusic that said they were chifteteli that were from compilations of Greek dance music. Neither seemed to have the rythm I learned from American teachers as chiftiteli. That didn't entirely surprise me, since I know we have a tendacy to name a specific rhythm after a broader style of music (like we do with Beledi for example). The two songs I heard just seemed do different than I would have expected--they were fast songs, the main sound seemed to be a string instrument, etc. I really liked one of these songs and can imagine that someone might enjoy dancing to it! Does the rhythm we refer to as "chiftiteli" have any connection to Greek chiftiteli music? Does the music I described sound like chiftiteli music (I know sometimes things are mislabled)?
--Sam

Maria_Aya · 07-10-2006, 08:46 PM

Dear Sam

About the songs, can you recognize any lyrics? or have the names of them? this way i could tell more, chifeteli can be very slow or very fast depends.
Now about the rythm etc question, the best is to read our own Chryssanthi Sahar article about greek chifteteli (she is greek also).
http://www.orientaldancer.net/articles/tsifteteli.shtml
Just ask anything, we love so much greek chifteteli and it pains us that is not represented abroad in the right way (beside Chryssanthi at Germany) that we have to do something

Maria Aya

samsied · 07-13-2006, 06:50 PM

Hi Maria! Neither of these songs have lyrics.

These are how the songs were labled on emusic where I downloaded them:
Tsifteteli by Elenis and Athanasiou on Greek Folk Dances
http://www.emusic.com/album/10894/10894733.html

Rast Tsiftetelli by Various Artists - FM Records compilation called Gypsy Music Of Constantinople
http://www.emusic.com/album/10886/10886514.html

I associate this rhythym with chiftitelli/Tsiftetelli since I was taught the rhythm is called Chiftitelli:
http://www.emusic.com/album/10886/10886017.html
(I think you can click on listen without joining to hear a few seconds of it)

Is the above rhythm used in Tsiftetelli music? I didn't hear it in those two songs, but maybe I just didn't notice it since I am use to it being slow and percussive. (Still working on my musical ear). I am guessing that the style of music uses a variety of rhythyms like most styles of music.

By the way Maria, I read the article you suggested several months ago and found it really interesting. That article and some of your postss is why I downloaded those songs since I was curious what Greek Tsiftetelli music sounds like. Thanks Chryssanthi for writing that article!

Maria_Aya · 07-14-2006, 12:53 PM

The first 2 are chiftetelie's (love the second one, so uplifting) the third isnt at least greek chifteteli, it says gypsy caravan, but its not even related with the greek gypsies
Maria Aya

samsied · 07-14-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsied

Hi Maria! Neither of these songs have lyrics.
I associate this rhythym with chiftitelli/Tsiftetelli since I was taught the rhythm is called Chiftitelli:
http://www.emusic.com/album/10886/10886017.html
(I think you can click on listen without joining to hear a few seconds of it)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria_Aya

The first 2 are chiftetelie's (love the second one, so uplifting) the third isnt at least greek chifteteli, it says gypsy caravan, but its not even related with the greek gypsies
Maria Aya

Hi Maria, the third is by a band/American Tribal Bellydance troupe called Gypsy Caravan based in Portland, Oregon. They don't claim to be gypsies, the cd it is from is a collection of the different rhythms taught/used in American bellydance. The reason I included this, is that several American teachers I have had teach this as a rhythm called Chifteteli. I always assumed the rhythm is used in chiftiteli music. Hearing the two that you confirmed are Greek chifteteli, made me wonder if I was mistaken. I had been taught that Greek chiftitelli is fast and read that the name refers to a stringed instrument.

I like the Greek songs as well--especially the second one.

chryssanthi sahar · 07-15-2006, 04:18 AM

Dear Samsied.

Let's clear the misunderstandings: There are two things called "Chifteteli": One is the Turkish and Greek belly dance (whereas second is actually called "Tsifteteli", because we don't have the sound "ch" in Greek, except in some dialects), the other is the 8/4 Arabian rhythm Taksim, which some times is called also Chifteteli. Probably because it is used a lot for the Turkish Chifteteli, but in lot quicker version than for the Arabian Taksim parts of a musical routine.
The Turkish Chifteteli usually has the 8/4 rhythm Chifteteli and/or 4/4 rhythms, mostly Maqsoum. The Greek Chifteteli has in most cases 4/4 rhythms also mostly Maqsoum and in rare cases the 8/4 Chifteteli rhythm (which in this case is played slow, like in the Arabian music). The word Chifteteli is Turkish and means "two strings". We Greeks have the Turkish name, because, as you read in my article , Chifteteli was brought to modern Greece through the expatriate Greeks of Smyrna.
As about the songs you are talking about: the first is indeed a Greek Tsifteteli with a very quick 4/4 Maqsoum rhythm. The second is a Turkish Chifteteli with also a 4/4 rhythm (Maria sorry, this song is definitely Turkish and not Greek

) and the third song is obviously a fusion with an Arabian 8/4 Chifteteli or Taksim rhythm. I hope you are less confused about the subject now

Happy dancing

samsied · 07-16-2006, 05:38 PM

Thanks Chryssanthi and Maria! That is starting to make sense to me now.

I know this was discussed on the former forum, does anyone know of any online video clips showing people dancing Tsiftitelli?

chryssanthi sahar · 07-17-2006, 01:02 AM

Unfortunately there are no online video clips from people who dance Tsifteteli. At least I couldn't find any. Maybe Maria knows better, she is an Internet expert

(filakia Maria mou)
But I performed a traditional Greek Tsifteteli at my recent "Oriental Flow" show and I have this on video. I'll try to put it on my web page and on youtube. But I don't know how long it will take until I make it, because I am very busy at the moment.

chryssanthi sahar · 02-02-2007, 02:35 AM

I made it to put my traditional Tsifteteli video on youtube at last

Have a look.

07-07-2006, 07:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	Greek Chifteteli As we say in Greece "if you dont adore your house it will fall on your head" lol Maria Aya

07-15-2006, 04:18 AM	#7 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Dear Samsied. Let's clear the misunderstandings: There are two things called "Chifteteli": One is the Turkish and Greek belly dance (whereas second is actually called "Tsifteteli", because we don't have the sound "ch" in Greek, except in some dialects), the other is the 8/4 Arabian rhythm Taksim, which some times is called also Chifteteli. Probably because it is used a lot for the Turkish Chifteteli, but in lot quicker version than for the Arabian Taksim parts of a musical routine. The Turkish Chifteteli usually has the 8/4 rhythm Chifteteli and/or 4/4 rhythms, mostly Maqsoum. The Greek Chifteteli has in most cases 4/4 rhythms also mostly Maqsoum and in rare cases the 8/4 Chifteteli rhythm (which in this case is played slow, like in the Arabian music). The word Chifteteli is Turkish and means "two strings". We Greeks have the Turkish name, because, as you read in my article , Chifteteli was brought to modern Greece through the expatriate Greeks of Smyrna. As about the songs you are talking about: the first is indeed a Greek Tsifteteli with a very quick 4/4 Maqsoum rhythm. The second is a Turkish Chifteteli with also a 4/4 rhythm (Maria sorry, this song is definitely Turkish and not Greek ) and the third song is obviously a fusion with an Arabian 8/4 Chifteteli or Taksim rhythm. I hope you are less confused about the subject now Happy dancing __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com Last edited by chryssanthi sahar; 07-13-2007 at 04:11 AM.

07-17-2006, 01:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Unfortunately there are no online video clips from people who dance Tsifteteli. At least I couldn't find any. Maybe Maria knows better, she is an Internet expert (filakia Maria mou) But I performed a traditional Greek Tsifteteli at my recent "Oriental Flow" show and I have this on video. I'll try to put it on my web page and on youtube. But I don't know how long it will take until I make it, because I am very busy at the moment. __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

02-02-2007, 02:35 AM	#10 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	I made it to put my traditional Tsifteteli video on youtube at last Have a look. __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

07-10-2006, 05:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
samsied Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 120	Hi Maria! I have a question about Greek Chifteteli. I recently downloaded two songs from emusic that said they were chifteteli that were from compilations of Greek dance music. Neither seemed to have the rythm I learned from American teachers as chiftiteli. That didn't entirely surprise me, since I know we have a tendacy to name a specific rhythm after a broader style of music (like we do with Beledi for example). The two songs I heard just seemed do different than I would have expected--they were fast songs, the main sound seemed to be a string instrument, etc. I really liked one of these songs and can imagine that someone might enjoy dancing to it! Does the rhythm we refer to as "chiftiteli" have any connection to Greek chiftiteli music? Does the music I described sound like chiftiteli music (I know sometimes things are mislabled)? --Sam

07-10-2006, 08:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	Dear Sam About the songs, can you recognize any lyrics? or have the names of them? this way i could tell more, chifeteli can be very slow or very fast depends. Now about the rythm etc question, the best is to read our own Chryssanthi Sahar article about greek chifteteli (she is greek also). http://www.orientaldancer.net/articles/tsifteteli.shtml Just ask anything, we love so much greek chifteteli and it pains us that is not represented abroad in the right way (beside Chryssanthi at Germany) that we have to do something Maria Aya

07-13-2006, 06:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
samsied Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 120	Hi Maria! Neither of these songs have lyrics. These are how the songs were labled on emusic where I downloaded them: Tsifteteli by Elenis and Athanasiou on Greek Folk Dances http://www.emusic.com/album/10894/10894733.html Rast Tsiftetelli by Various Artists - FM Records compilation called Gypsy Music Of Constantinople http://www.emusic.com/album/10886/10886514.html I associate this rhythym with chiftitelli/Tsiftetelli since I was taught the rhythm is called Chiftitelli: http://www.emusic.com/album/10886/10886017.html (I think you can click on listen without joining to hear a few seconds of it) Is the above rhythm used in Tsiftetelli music? I didn't hear it in those two songs, but maybe I just didn't notice it since I am use to it being slow and percussive. (Still working on my musical ear). I am guessing that the style of music uses a variety of rhythyms like most styles of music. By the way Maria, I read the article you suggested several months ago and found it really interesting. That article and some of your postss is why I downloaded those songs since I was curious what Greek Tsiftetelli music sounds like. Thanks Chryssanthi for writing that article!

07-14-2006, 12:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	The first 2 are chiftetelie's (love the second one, so uplifting) the third isnt at least greek chifteteli, it says gypsy caravan, but its not even related with the greek gypsies Maria Aya

07-16-2006, 05:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
samsied Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 120	Thanks Chryssanthi and Maria! That is starting to make sense to me now. I know this was discussed on the former forum, does anyone know of any online video clips showing people dancing Tsiftitelli?