Maria_Aya

Wow what a thread and what a forum, how lucky we are all to have among us people that have AND share so much knowledge on arabic dance, music, songs, culture.
Thank you all.
And sad also for Etab...

Maria Aya

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Aisha Azar

Dear Group,
I went to baby sit my friend Leila's new baby this afternoon and asked her ( Leila, not the baby!) about Etab. Leila is Saudi and lived there until 7 years ago. She said that Etab was born a slave as I had been told, and that during most of her time in Saudi Arabia, female singers were banned, but that did not stop people from hiring her and other singers that still managed to be popular with Saudis. Etab, according to Leila, was a Saudi citizen. She also said that Saudi women do not lose their citizenship when they marry men from other countries. However, even if their children are born in Saudi Arabia, they do not have citizenship because children legally belong to their fathers and their fathers are not Saudi. She has experience in this area because her cousin is married to an Iraqi and she is married to an Egyptian. She reiterated that the Saudi people loved Etab and she was so sorry to hear that she had died.
Regards,
A'isha

gypsy8522

The laws in Saudi might be a little different, I've never lived there so I'm not really sure. I know in Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates women at some point had to give up their passports if they married a non khaleegi. I don't know why the Saudi government no longer applies this law, it could be that a lot of their women who are above the age of thirty are not married. I read a story about a famous Egyptian actor who was once married to a Saudi Arabian woman, he said that he needed to get permission from the king in order to marry her. Your friend is right, children do not get Saudi citizenship if the father is not a Saudi Arabian. If you ask her, she should tell you in Saudi society and gulf people in general, it is unacceptable for a women to marry a "foreigner", even if that "foreigner" is muslim and from an Arabic country.

Lydia dubai

Hi Gypsy,that rule is no more in the UAE...woman can marrie foreigners,no problem there only this rule...the husband can not become a UAE national,thats it realy bt further its just fine and she will keep her pasport

Aisha Azar

Dear Gypsy and Lydia,
During the 1970s and probably at least into the 80s, it was the law in Qatar that no one, male or female, could marry someone who was not a Qatari. The expatriate population far outnumbered the Qatari people and the Al-Thani government was quite concerned about it. I have no idea if this is still the case there or not. Thank you both for sharing info. I think it is really important to know about cultural issues so that it will be an incentive for people not to divorce the dances and music from their various cultures. Every tiny bit of cultural knowledge can only help all of us to better understand things in context.
BTW- Do either of you know the meaning of the word "Neshel"? As in Thobe Neshel and Raqs Neshat?? I have spoken to countless people from the Gulf and Saudi Arabia and have only heard one meaning, from a guy that I do not entirely trust to tell me the truth!!
Regards,
A'isha

Lydia dubai

Hi A,isha sorry i missed this last post....I am not shure what you are asking?? the word ,,neshel,, is the name of the thobe itself..but it,s said like nashl...the last e is sounding much shorter than the first a...

the dance itself is not called Samri in the UEA but its called nash...(neshat)
Samri is the name that is used in Saoedy and Kuwait
But i am not sure if i understand correctly what you are asking...have a nice day Lydia

Mark_Balahadia

Actually, at least from Saudis, I've heard the dance always called "Ra's Khaleeji" although most of the Saudis I know intimately are from Jeddah. Maybe it also depends on what part of Saudi Arabia?

I'm not sure about other Arab countries but in Lebanon, Lebanese citizenship is passed on by the father. If a Lebanese women marries a foreigner, her children don't get Lebanese citizenship. Also, if a Lebanese woman divorces a Lebanese man, custody automatically goes to the father unless otherwise specificed.

As far as names go, your middle name is always your father's name. I had some difficulty in Lebanon when I was getting money at the bank because my middle name is my mother's maiden name! I had to change my middle name to my father's name in order to get money or do anything legal for that matter even though on my passport and ID it clearly states my legal middle name. Wackly lebs!

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Aisha Azar

Dear Lydia,
I am asking about the meaning of the word. I have heard the Qataris, Saudis and Kuwaitis all call the dance Samri. I have heard the guys from UAE and Qatar call it Raqs Neshat ( which sounds like more than one Nesh, if I am not wrong...???and Raqs Khaliji. One of my Kuwaiti friends says that Khaliji refers to the modern dance and Samri to the traditional, but I have heard others contradict that, so its a mish-mosh. I have two articles on my site that discusses the dance and one of them is called "Are WE Confused Yet?", because of all these responses to my questions over the years.
I have heard it pronounces NESH-ell and Nashl, colloquialisms, I guess.
Would you know what the word NASH means??

Dear Mark,
Yeah, all the females I know, even Christians from Arab countries have their father's name as their middle name. I read in Fazlur's book that this has something to do with inheritance rights, but who knows??
OH, and PS: The new Baby has Baba's first name as her middle name and of course, his last name, though Oumi has kept her family surname as is the Arab custom.

Regards to you both,
A'isha

Lydia dubai

Hi Aisha...the word nash the name of the dance ....like i said it is not called samri here in this country.....then nashl is the name of the dress....i did talk again last night to some local girls about it and they told me .....But also i have asked them to ask there parents and grandparents how and what to be on the safe side...simply because the younger generation is not realy interested in this anymore what is a pitty so i am working on it and let you know how and what ....have a nice day Lydia

Aisha Azar

Dear Lydia,
Thank you for taking your time to try to find out more for me. I appreciate it very much!
Regards,
A'isha