Crop tops - Page 3

Aisha Azar · 09-11-2006, 01:00 PM

Dear Group,
I have seen both male and female dancers wear costuming that is wonderful and sometimes not so wonderful... In my opinion most of the costumes worn by one of my very favorite dancers were terrible. Suhair Zaki used to wear stuff that made me wish her costumer could be put t bed and made to lay there and review every costume she ever put the poor lady in until she died of embarrassment!
Men and women both have costume faux pais, and I think that one man's ( or woman's) trash is another's treasure in the costume department. I once saw Bobby Farrah perform in a Beledi dress. So many people in the audience were disgruntled by his costume choice, but I thought it was a good choice for him and he danced really well that night. Though great costuming helps, I think that in the long run, that is a matter of personal taste, certainly, and does not affect the quality of the dance for me.
REgards,
A'isha

Lydia dubai · 09-11-2006, 05:38 PM

Hi Moon ,yes ofcourse sharing is great ,but share in a nice way.....i found some mail realy offending,towards others why is it like that? perhaps i am the onlyone that thinks like that,but i dont think there is a need for putting others down in any way. I think its great to share things that you know or things you want to know about this art,but i just dont see any benefit in putting others down.....we must support each other as artists not vice versa...we are a special community we think so differant than many other people ,many others dont understand our passion the passion we have for dancing ,performing enz....putting everything aside for it ,working 15 ,16 hours a day to put a good show on stage...so atleast let us artist understand each other and not put one another down....and accept each other just the way we are ......again this is just my humble thinking....have a great day and happy dancing Lydia

Aniseteph · 09-11-2006, 07:34 PM

Hi Lydia.
You are quite right about not putting people down - we should all be supportive of each other. I don't think anyone has been putting anyone down on this thread though. The bit about males in crop tops (in capital letters) was I think just a bit of a tease to try to get a Heated Debate going, because similar topics were causing debate elsewhere on the forum.

But alas (sorry Salome!) some of us who responded were merely indulging in light-hearted banter and discussion about our personal preferences (:o) , rather than any serious discussion of male costume issues. IMO this thread has been remarkably "put-down" free - we were just saying what we like, with a bit more leching/perving at the guys than might be politically correct!

Zorba · 09-11-2006, 09:36 PM

I don't know about the rest of the guys - but I've said my piece on this subject. Agree or not, its no skin off my nose.

Personally, I think the beer swilling, "macho" type of man is one step above a neaderthal, but who am I? I'm tired of people telling me I have to be an ugly, coarse and vulgar person in order to be a "real" man. Screw that.

If a guy wants to wear a crop top, go for it. At least he's braver than the beer bellied lemmings in the herd. Same for anything else we've discussed ad nauseum.

Yea, I'm grumpy today...

Moon · 09-11-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba

If a guy wants to wear a crop top, go for it. At least he's braver than the beer bellied lemmings in the herd.

You're sooo true on that one.

Aisha Azar · 09-12-2006, 01:15 PM

Dear Zorba and Group,
Men, just like women, should come in all flavors and sizes and colors, etc. It is this variety that makes us each interesting and each have something of our own to contribute. Often I think people like to put men in a box, (maybe even more so than women) and say that they must act thus and so in order to "be a man". That nonsense can really get in the way of people appreciating each other in ways that have real depth. To be prejudiced either against the extremely macho or the most effeminate man in the world is still being prejudiced. Being macho does not make one a "man" any more than being gentle makes one a "sissy". It takes a hell of a lot more than that! I know an extremely effeminate gay guy who has learned to defend himself against such "Macho" types who think its fun to beat people up, and he can kick ass if he has to. One of his favorite quotes?? "I'm twice the man you'll ever be and twice the woman you'll ever have".
Regards,
A'isha

Shanazel · 09-12-2006, 02:25 PM

Dear Zorba, don't take it so seriously. This did indeed start off being a funny thread, and as I stated in the first post I made, I am capable and willing to argue with my own point of view just for the hell of it. The world does not turn on the subject of crops tops for men or women (and by the way, you look better in them than I do).

"I'm twice the man you'll ever be and twice the woman you'll ever have".

(A'isha, do you want me to die of the giggles?)

Lydia dubai · 09-12-2006, 02:53 PM

Hi Anesitept,,,thank you for understanding..i think i did not exact know how this thread was gonna go in what direction ,and i was in the first post that i wrote in this threat more refering to the other treats that you are mentioning now,but i felt its gonna go the same way and i was reading the others but did not want to mail and was thinking its ok i will just read and hope it will go away ..kind of...but this one started and i felt i wanna do my bit to change the direction of it,not again listen to that stuff,like name calling enz....i admit i am a softy and dont like arguiing ,i hate arguiing infact....you know when you live in this part of the world all what people are talking about most of the time wherever you go is politics and religion ,and the war... enz....nobody talks about dancing specialy bellydancing it is ofcourse like mentioned before haram ,so i rarely talk about it outside my workplace or school...so its great to come to this forum...and than suddenly i was reading that yakky stuff...it just made me upset , but who am i at the end of the day...never mind tomorrow is another danceable day !! have a great day Lydia

Zorba · 09-12-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Often I think people like to put men in a box, (maybe even more so than women) and say that they must act thus and so in order to "be a man". That nonsense can really get in the way of people appreciating each other in ways that have real depth. To be prejudiced either against the extremely macho or the most effeminate man in the world is still being prejudiced. Being macho does not make one a "man" any more than being gentle makes one a "sissy".

Thank you for saying this...

I call it the "Male Box", not to be confused with the "Mailbox". These days, women (in the west at least) are more-or-less free to dress/act/do what/as they please - as it should be. Men are not - unless they stand up and take these "rights" for themselves. I refuse to be stuck in a box!

I'm a gentle, sensitve, "new age" kind of guy. I don't consider myself effeminate - but realize some do. That's OK, there's nothing wrong with that.

Shanazel - I'm feeling better today....

Aisha Azar · 09-12-2006, 03:30 PM

Dear Zorba,
Once when I was at the belly dance festival in Utah, I got into this poor excuse for a person's face because he was abusing his dog. I can;t believe I was the only one, but I was. In telling me to mind my own business, he referred to me as a "Fat Dyke". My husband of 34 years would be very surprised to hear the dyke part, but often when women speak out, we do get called names that are supposed to be derrogatory. I did not bother to correct him since I felt my sexual oreintation had nothing to do with the issue at hand.
REgards,
A'isha

09-11-2006, 01:00 PM	#21 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,516	Crop tops Dear Group, I have seen both male and female dancers wear costuming that is wonderful and sometimes not so wonderful... In my opinion most of the costumes worn by one of my very favorite dancers were terrible. Suhair Zaki used to wear stuff that made me wish her costumer could be put t bed and made to lay there and review every costume she ever put the poor lady in until she died of embarrassment! Men and women both have costume faux pais, and I think that one man's ( or woman's) trash is another's treasure in the costume department. I once saw Bobby Farrah perform in a Beledi dress. So many people in the audience were disgruntled by his costume choice, but I thought it was a good choice for him and he danced really well that night. Though great costuming helps, I think that in the long run, that is a matter of personal taste, certainly, and does not affect the quality of the dance for me. REgards, A'isha Last edited by Aisha Azar; 09-11-2006 at 07:45 PM. Reason: typos

09-11-2006, 05:38 PM	#22 (permalink)
Lydia dubai V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dubai United arab emirates Posts: 1,351	crop tops Hi Moon ,yes ofcourse sharing is great ,but share in a nice way.....i found some mail realy offending,towards others why is it like that? perhaps i am the onlyone that thinks like that,but i dont think there is a need for putting others down in any way. I think its great to share things that you know or things you want to know about this art,but i just dont see any benefit in putting others down.....we must support each other as artists not vice versa...we are a special community we think so differant than many other people ,many others dont understand our passion the passion we have for dancing ,performing enz....putting everything aside for it ,working 15 ,16 hours a day to put a good show on stage...so atleast let us artist understand each other and not put one another down....and accept each other just the way we are ......again this is just my humble thinking....have a great day and happy dancing Lydia

09-11-2006, 09:36 PM	#24 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 862	I don't know about the rest of the guys - but I've said my piece on this subject. Agree or not, its no skin off my nose. Personally, I think the beer swilling, "macho" type of man is one step above a neaderthal, but who am I? I'm tired of people telling me I have to be an ugly, coarse and vulgar person in order to be a "real" man. Screw that. If a guy wants to wear a crop top, go for it. At least he's braver than the beer bellied lemmings in the herd. Same for anything else we've discussed ad nauseum. Yea, I'm grumpy today... __________________ -Zorba "The Veiled Male" http://www.doubleveil.net "There is nothing sadder than a veil, that is for sale."

09-12-2006, 01:15 PM	#26 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,516	Men, etc. Dear Zorba and Group, Men, just like women, should come in all flavors and sizes and colors, etc. It is this variety that makes us each interesting and each have something of our own to contribute. Often I think people like to put men in a box, (maybe even more so than women) and say that they must act thus and so in order to "be a man". That nonsense can really get in the way of people appreciating each other in ways that have real depth. To be prejudiced either against the extremely macho or the most effeminate man in the world is still being prejudiced. Being macho does not make one a "man" any more than being gentle makes one a "sissy". It takes a hell of a lot more than that! I know an extremely effeminate gay guy who has learned to defend himself against such "Macho" types who think its fun to beat people up, and he can kick ass if he has to. One of his favorite quotes?? "I'm twice the man you'll ever be and twice the woman you'll ever have". Regards, A'isha

09-12-2006, 03:30 PM	#30 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,516	Feminine, etc. Dear Zorba, Once when I was at the belly dance festival in Utah, I got into this poor excuse for a person's face because he was abusing his dog. I can;t believe I was the only one, but I was. In telling me to mind my own business, he referred to me as a "Fat Dyke". My husband of 34 years would be very surprised to hear the dyke part, but often when women speak out, we do get called names that are supposed to be derrogatory. I did not bother to correct him since I felt my sexual oreintation had nothing to do with the issue at hand. REgards, A'isha

09-11-2006, 07:34 PM	#23 (permalink)
Aniseteph V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sussex, England Posts: 1,712	Hi Lydia. You are quite right about not putting people down - we should all be supportive of each other. I don't think anyone has been putting anyone down on this thread though. The bit about males in crop tops (in capital letters) was I think just a bit of a tease to try to get a Heated Debate going, because similar topics were causing debate elsewhere on the forum. But alas (sorry Salome!) some of us who responded were merely indulging in light-hearted banter and discussion about our personal preferences (:o) , rather than any serious discussion of male costume issues. IMO this thread has been remarkably "put-down" free - we were just saying what we like, with a bit more leching/perving at the guys than might be politically correct!

09-12-2006, 02:25 PM	#27 (permalink)
Shanazel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains USA Posts: 4,684	Dear Zorba, don't take it so seriously. This did indeed start off being a funny thread, and as I stated in the first post I made, I am capable and willing to argue with my own point of view just for the hell of it. The world does not turn on the subject of crops tops for men or women (and by the way, you look better in them than I do). "I'm twice the man you'll ever be and twice the woman you'll ever have". (A'isha, do you want me to die of the giggles?)

09-12-2006, 02:53 PM	#28 (permalink)
Lydia dubai V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dubai United arab emirates Posts: 1,351	Hi Anesitept,,,thank you for understanding..i think i did not exact know how this thread was gonna go in what direction ,and i was in the first post that i wrote in this threat more refering to the other treats that you are mentioning now,but i felt its gonna go the same way and i was reading the others but did not want to mail and was thinking its ok i will just read and hope it will go away ..kind of...but this one started and i felt i wanna do my bit to change the direction of it,not again listen to that stuff,like name calling enz....i admit i am a softy and dont like arguiing ,i hate arguiing infact....you know when you live in this part of the world all what people are talking about most of the time wherever you go is politics and religion ,and the war... enz....nobody talks about dancing specialy bellydancing it is ofcourse like mentioned before haram ,so i rarely talk about it outside my workplace or school...so its great to come to this forum...and than suddenly i was reading that yakky stuff...it just made me upset , but who am i at the end of the day...never mind tomorrow is another danceable day !! have a great day Lydia