Caroline_afifi

Yep, I dont think it matters who started what so much, it was more of a theory as to why their is this issue despite men dancing these moves socially.
I do know many Egyptians who dance who do believe it started with women as that is their belief too. This does not mean it is correct, we can all lose sight of what is what if all trace is removed, as you say.

I am aware you kepp saying GOOD male dancers. The thing is, the male dance community is very diverse and all have a different take on what this is about and why (like women). The thing is, womens dance is highlt developed in Egypt where as mens dance is not. This means their there is less sources of reference. Also, how many male dancers in the West are expressing their sexuality or personal beliefs in some shape or form.

Womans dance has mutated in to all sorts of things and largely down to the fact there was little good and cultural sources of reference for for so long.
People have become so set in their ways and ideas about what they have been doing, the mere thought that what they are doing may not be MED will send them crazy and attack anyone who dare suggest it.

I have seen very few male dancers in the flesh but some of the things I have witnessed on Youtube looks like a potential recipe for disaster, none of which will help the cause but reinforce a negative stereotype.

Tarik Sultan

In total agreement. If there had been a youtube when I started out and I was shown even half of what is out there, I'd have run screaming in the other direction!

I think the stereotype has become a self fulfilling prophecy. People have the idea that only women move in these ways and so because they didn't know Baladi existed, they assumed only women dance, not knowing that the truth was/is more complex.

For this reason people naturally assume that if a guy dances this way, even for fun, he must be imitating a woman and that means he's gay. So for guys, they are all afraid people will call them gay, so they stay far away. So whose left? Effeminate gays who have nothing to lose, who also want the attention and validation from others that comes from being a performer and so, they make up the majority of the guys getting into it. This is why I stress so much the reality of the culture as it pertains to what guys actually do when they dance. The truth goes so far against the stereotype that I've had people accuse me of having staged those videos of guys dancing! I put up the Saidi video clips and interviews specifically because some twit in Mohendesin in Cairo was insulting my videos and made the statement men in Egypt don't dance that way. That wasn't Egyptian culture. When I pointed out they were filmed on location in Cairo, she denied it, then went on to tell me if a guy did that in the Said they'd kill him, so I put up the videos and she accuses me of making the whole thing up! Some people!

However, I have found a few gems of dancers on youtube who are real dancers by anybody's standards and they are good. Not all Egyptian style, but good examples of what is possible.

Pirika Repun

OK guys

I bust my ass to edit some pics while I’m working at my day time job. Don’t tell my boss I’m doing it. LOL. Here is some Tarik's pics I took at Le Suke a couple of weeks ago.

First of all, these are NOT dance pics. I chose some photos which you guys CAN see audience's reaction and Tarik's reaction. So, don't think about as his performance photos. You can see both male and female audience's reaction.

Second, this place is very dark. 1st floor is restaurant, but down stairs are club, and almost no light down there. I use flush to take these photos, but when I took these pics, I even couldn't see what he was doing; so many pics came out terrible.

Third, I have been taking sports photos (mainly basketball and American football) for about 8 years, but I just start to take dance photos, so I’m still beginner and learning dance photos. I know it’s excuses. LOL

Again I chose these photos to show you guys how audience react his performance, and focus on his performance. I hope you guys get some idea…. That day, a lot of people were there and I sweat a lot just taking photos! One photo, you can see he got $10 bill for tip!

Attached Thumbnails

         

Caroline_afifi

I was just thinking of some really good captions to go with these photos... we could have some good fun with this!

Thanks, it is always nice to see photos of members in action.

Pirika Repun

Thanks Caroline!

Yeah, I was thinking put some captions to it, but I don't know how to do it, so just leave it alone. You guys play with it and tell Tarik our captions! he he he

Tarik, honey, these photos are more like snap shot, I have some good performance photos for you (I hope...) I'll bring to you soon (hopefully) You are ALWAYS pretty & beautiful baby

Tarik Sultan

Oh oh!

AngelaJP

Hey girl! Hahaha, you blew your cover finally! Tarik finally found out Those are really wonderful interesting action photos you took! I love photography too but I have the semi-slr one so I can still take videos with zoom. Oh Pirika, I don't know why you didn't post photos of yourself belly dancing You are gorgeous!

What does Pirika Repun mean?

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Carpe diem!

Pirika Repun

Angela

Thanks.

Yeah, he found out me for my "small boobs comment" You know that mean, I have a small boobs. It took long time to find out, so I think I did good job to cover myself.

I use Canon SLR camera. I only have 70-200mm f.2.8 lens, so I rent 24-80mm f.2.8 lens to take this shots. Because of my photo back ground is sports, and I usually focus not only plays, but players and coaches reaction from side line or on the coat (field) so I just take whatever I can get some reaction or emotion from my victims. LOL. That's why my photos sometimes different than other dance photographers' point of view. I don't take dancers for look "beautiful" but I'm focus more about their "feeling" or "emotion" . In this case, some dancers do not like my photos, because they want to be "beautiful" but my photos come out different way. I'm not saying it come out ugly, but I'm saying not they are expected. What can I say? These are still them, and maybe they never see before, but part of their dance, and I feel from them and captured in camera.

I'm camera shy, and I don't have any photos while I dance, so no Oriental dance photos.

Pirika Repun means Beautiful Ocean for my native people.

I hope Tarik not gonna torture me because I post these pics....

jenc

Who are your people?

AngelaJP

Yes, Pirika, I'm curious too. I somehow have the feeling it's Asian.

Whew Pirika! You really have the slr and all the accessories needed! Obvious from your pictures though - art and technology combined. I only have the Canon S5 which is one of my treasures now for photos and videos. I don't have accessories for this though as the zoom is super. My dream is a wide-angle lens for this!

Maybe Tarik will squeeze you with his zills as torture during your next class, hahaha! I wish he will just take so many of your dance photos as your torture though. Hope Tarik reads this, hahaha!

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Carpe diem!