Males dancing in a troupe - Page 3

masrawy · 08-14-2008, 04:02 PM

Hi Tarik, Thank you for making sense of this miss good starter .. I am working now and will post later.~Mahmoud

Aniseteph · 08-14-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

It reminds me of the old LPs when the needle would get stuck because there was a scratch! (Am I showing my age? I mean...CDs).

Tell me about it... the other day my 9 year old asked me what a record looked like.

Quote:

The dance is about emotional expression and musical interpretation through music. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A PERSONALITY AND HAVE FUN. Even when you are dancing solo, you are still sharing the moment with your friends. You are relating to the people around you. PEople in Egypt just get up and start dancing for strangers, its always in the context of sharing the moment with your social group, even if they are just watching. Even if the dancer is not very good, its the feeling which makes it come alive.

Tarik Sultan · 08-14-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniseteph

Tell me about it... the other day my 9 year old asked me what a record looked like.

WHAT A RECORD LOOKS LIKE, WHAT A RECORD LOOKS LIKE?! HOW WOULD WE KNOW WHAT A RECORD LOOKS LIKE??!!! WE'RE ONLY...... 22 RIGHT? The nerve of some children!

Zorba · 08-14-2008, 08:11 PM

Humpf - anyone (else) remember wire recorders?

Tarik Sultan · 08-14-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba

Humpf - anyone (else) remember wire recorders?

NO! And we don't remember 8 track tapes either!

masrawy · 08-15-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

I understand where both you and Khanjar are coming from. He is still new to this and so to see people dancing freely for him is wonderful, especially to see a guy since where he is guys are not exactly encouraged to participate in the dance. They have a hard time finding a teacher who will allow them to take classes much less perform!

Cut

I won't get into the whole dynamics of what should be there in the context of professional level dancing, especially as it pertains to men, because that is a whole 'nother can of worms and all of you know what I'm talking about!

Hey Tarik
I looked through your posts now have the chance but I can't find any holes to pick on, I think we are in agreement and I'm not trying to con you. But I can comment on the video you posted since I have not seen them before. They brought up old memories from my high school and college time that was full of joy and happiness especially the one with the kids at the beach. That's basically what we used to do in the summer time and even when I was in Cairo sometimes we cut school and go to "el anater el khirya" just a bunch of guys having fun, and yes we did carry one of those battery-operated record player with bad speakers, but ew had a wonderful time. BTW that particular group was mixed Greek, Armenian and Egyptian kids. In college it was a little bit different .... We had girls .... yahoo, my college had 9:1 girls to boys percentage and I was into camping, getting around the campfire every night dancing ( I did not ), singing and playing comedy skits just plain fun until three or four o'clock in the morning. We had three guys who could Belly dance, one of them definitely was better than even most of the girls also he was the more muscular guy of the three ... but he knows his stuff. I could assure you he is not a professional belly dancer now.
And that's maybe the can of worms you talking about.

khanjar · 08-15-2008, 01:38 AM

I remember both wire recorders and eight track tapes, in fact I had an old Ford capri that had an eight track tape player installed. I even remember the black and white tv where the channels were changed with a rheostat and when it got turned off, the picture collapsed into a white dot in the middle of the screen, which provided endless fascination until the white dot disappeared. I like old stuff from when times were simpler, my first car was a 1955 land-rover, my second car was a 1977 VW camper, simple mechanics , simple to repair and they went well.

Ok, with the posts I have posted, it is obvious I saw different from the majority here. It is with me, I do see things that others see different, one of the problems with being bi polar. What I liked about the video I posted was initially, not one, but two men as it appeared in a dance troupe, this impressed me greatly and I saw the no men allowed bar largely irrelevant, at least in the US. Things as they are in the US, what happens there, Britain has always followed, and it may come that here in Blighty, male dancers may be seen in public dancing with a dance group, and even better if there are more than one.

The zills were irritating I agree, but I saw this as the dancers enjoying themselves, lost in what they were doing. The onlookers looked bored, giving me the impression that the dancers were dancing for themselves and the fun of it, which is something I seek, the fun of it, my interest in learning this dance. The lead chappy, Wes, was out on his own, quite apart from the others, I drew my own conclusions from that as the video I suppose not was originally meant to be promotional material. To be honest, he ruined it with his ass wiggling at the crowd and his interference on personal space.

My remark about snobbery, which I understand some of you took wrong, well I do think a degree of snobbery does exist within ME dance, as it does with any art form, dance or otherwise. But everyone has to remember, those new to the art of ME dance see what they see and like what they like, whether it is good or bad, well, that decision can only come from experience. I am inexperienced, I see what I see and I liked, so I posted.

Perhaps I was inexplicit with my OP, when I asked what others thought, but I was looking for constructive yays or nays, not the same comment from everyone with no constructive analysis. I want to know where I have chosen what can be considered to be wrong by the more experienced, and I want to know why, or else how am I or any other newbie supposed to learn. I sought out this forum to learn more about the dance other than the dance moves, as I believe contact with other like minds can only enhance what one learns.

My apologies to those I have offended.

Khanjar

Tarik Sultan · 08-15-2008, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanjar

I remember both wire recorders and eight track tapes, in fact I had an old Ford capri that had an eight track tape player installed. I even remember the black and white tv where the channels were changed with a rheostat and when it got turned off, the picture collapsed into a white dot in the middle of the screen, which provided endless fascination until the white dot disappeared. I like old stuff from when times were simpler, my first car was a 1955 land-rover, my second car was a 1977 VW camper, simple mechanics , simple to repair and they went well.

Ok, with the posts I have posted, it is obvious I saw different from the majority here. It is with me, I do see things that others see different, one of the problems with being bi polar. What I liked about the video I posted was initially, not one, but two men as it appeared in a dance troupe, this impressed me greatly and I saw the no men allowed bar largely irrelevant, at least in the US. Things as they are in the US, what happens there, Britain has always followed, and it may come that here in Blighty, male dancers may be seen in public dancing with a dance group, and even better if there are more than one.

The zills were irritating I agree, but I saw this as the dancers enjoying themselves, lost in what they were doing. The onlookers looked bored, giving me the impression that the dancers were dancing for themselves and the fun of it, which is something I seek, the fun of it, my interest in learning this dance. The lead chappy, Wes, was out on his own, quite apart from the others, I drew my own conclusions from that as the video I suppose not was originally meant to be promotional material. To be honest, he ruined it with his ass wiggling at the crowd and his interference on personal space.

My remark about snobbery, which I understand some of you took wrong, well I do think a degree of snobbery does exist within ME dance, as it does with any art form, dance or otherwise. But everyone has to remember, those new to the art of ME dance see what they see and like what they like, whether it is good or bad, well, that decision can only come from experience. I am inexperienced, I see what I see and I liked, so I posted.

Perhaps I was inexplicit with my OP, when I asked what others thought, but I was looking for constructive yays or nays, not the same comment from everyone with no constructive analysis. I want to know where I have chosen what can be considered to be wrong by the more experienced, and I want to know why, or else how am I or any other newbie supposed to learn. I sought out this forum to learn more about the dance other than the dance moves, as I believe contact with other like minds can only enhance what one learns.

My apologies to those I have offended.

Khanjar

Dear Khanjar:

Like I said, I really understand where you were coming from any I think the chap from Egypt now does as well

I wouldn't fret if I were you. You are still so very new to this. Your taste will refine with time. There are things that I see and understand about the dance that I didn't once upon a time and even now my execution and feeling of the music is growing in complexity. I have a very close friend from Egypt who when growing up couldn't stand any of the classical Egyptian music. He use to ask his father why he spent so much time listening to all that boring stuff and his pop would just say "wait". Years later when he was all grown up and married, he calls his dad up and says, "I get it now". Get use to it kid, this thing is like a tree, it never stops growing. just when you think it's all done, another branch starts to sprout. So give it time and most of all enjoy the process of discovery that it brings.

masrawy · 08-15-2008, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

Dear Khanjar:

Like I said, I really understand where you were coming from any I think the chap from Egypt now does as well

Cut

Actually I am right next to you .... Exit 148 GSP, been in Montclair and Glen Ridge area for over 20 years.

Tarik Sultan · 08-15-2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masrawy

Hey Tarik
I looked through your posts now have the chance but I can't find any holes to pick on, I think we are in agreement and I'm not trying to con you. But I can comment on the video you posted since I have not seen them before. They brought up old memories from my high school and college time that was full of joy and happiness especially the one with the kids at the beach. That's basically what we used to do in the summer time and even when I was in Cairo sometimes we cut school and go to "el anater el khirya" just a bunch of guys having fun, and yes we did carry one of those battery-operated record player with bad speakers, but ew had a wonderful time. BTW that particular group was mixed Greek, Armenian and Egyptian kids. In college it was a little bit different .... We had girls .... yahoo, my college had 9:1 girls to boys percentage and I was into camping, getting around the campfire every night dancing ( I did not ), singing and playing comedy skits just plain fun until three or four o'clock in the morning. We had three guys who could Belly dance, one of them definitely was better than even most of the girls also he was the more muscular guy of the three ... but he knows his stuff. I could assure you he is not a professional belly dancer now.
And that's maybe the can of worms you talking about.

Dear Masrawy:

Yes, you totally understand what I was getting at. This is the spirit of the dance that most westerners are unfamiliar with and that is why so many of them just look a bit off when they dance. I really believe that to understand Raks Sharki, you have to know and experience Raks baladi because that is the foundation of what we see on stage. What gives Sharki its personality comes from Baladi, which comes from the expression of the heart and soul of the Egyptian people. Its not something you can rationalize. You have to feel it in your sould and to get that, you have to be quiet and observe and let it filter into your soul. The music, the atmosphere, the ambiance, the emotions.

As for your friend, I wouldn't expect him to do it on stage for many reasons which I have explained in pervious posts. Most of the best dancers in Egypt will never be found on a concert stage, which is why when you see one of them, it makes it all the more special. I know a 45yr old cab driver and father of 4, balding with a pot belly who can dance any kid or professional dancer under the table! Everyone in his neighborhood told him he should have been a pro, but of course we know the social pressures that make that not an attractive option for even a woman let alone a guy.

As for the can of worms... okay, I'll just peel the lid back a little bit. Let's just say that it is my opinion based on personal experience and what I know of the people and culture, that if a man does do this dance on a professional level, he has to project a certain image. People are not use to seeing men do this dance in the context of the stage and in costume. Therefore, it is very important that if they do, they present themselves as men. They shouldn't act or dress in a way that looks like they are channeling the spirit of Samia Gamal! I caught a lot of heat from a certain someone, (I'm sure you can guess who), who is of the opinion that if a man does the dance, it must be with a certain feminine something.... or else he is not doing Sharki. I was told be said person that as I lack feminine essence, I'm not an Oriental dancer, but a Baladi dancer and it goes on from there.

I am fully aware of the development of the dance and the context within which it developed in Cairo. HOWEVER, I am a man, and I rather like it. and I am not going to apologize or act in a way that is alien to my nature just so other people can feel comfortable. What I do is Oriental dance, but I am a man, and when I dance, I express that which is natural to my essence as a man. Therefore, it is a man's version of Raks Sharki, not a woman's. Let a woman be a woman and be as feminine as her nature allows, but let a man be a man. I can still be a man and express the sensuality that is inherent in this dance, just like dozens of guys I've seen in Egypt. (Not me at my best, but it gives an idea. I really DON'T like dancing in front of strangers when I'm not on stage)

I have danced for all Egyptian audiences many, many times at weddings and parties and whatever level of acceptance I've received comes from the fact that when i dance, I do so with dignity and the people never forget that they are watching a man dance. From my experience, Egyptians do not want to see a guy on stage acting like a woman, so, forgive me if I don't know how to dance with femininity and not look feminine. I just don't get it. I can be sensual, but feminine????

And that is where the bru, ha, ha started and over the course of a period of months went down hill..... waaaaaay down hill.

08-14-2008, 04:02 PM	#21 (permalink)
masrawy Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: In the Shadow Posts: 488	Hi Tarik, Thank you for making sense of this miss good starter .. I am working now and will post later.~Mahmoud __________________ "Be beautiful , the universe will turn beautiful in your eyes!"

08-14-2008, 08:11 PM	#24 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 862	Humpf - anyone (else) remember wire recorders? __________________ -Zorba "The Veiled Male" http://www.doubleveil.net "There is nothing sadder than a veil, that is for sale."

08-15-2008, 01:38 AM	#27 (permalink)
khanjar Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	I remember both wire recorders and eight track tapes, in fact I had an old Ford capri that had an eight track tape player installed. I even remember the black and white tv where the channels were changed with a rheostat and when it got turned off, the picture collapsed into a white dot in the middle of the screen, which provided endless fascination until the white dot disappeared. I like old stuff from when times were simpler, my first car was a 1955 land-rover, my second car was a 1977 VW camper, simple mechanics , simple to repair and they went well. Ok, with the posts I have posted, it is obvious I saw different from the majority here. It is with me, I do see things that others see different, one of the problems with being bi polar. What I liked about the video I posted was initially, not one, but two men as it appeared in a dance troupe, this impressed me greatly and I saw the no men allowed bar largely irrelevant, at least in the US. Things as they are in the US, what happens there, Britain has always followed, and it may come that here in Blighty, male dancers may be seen in public dancing with a dance group, and even better if there are more than one. The zills were irritating I agree, but I saw this as the dancers enjoying themselves, lost in what they were doing. The onlookers looked bored, giving me the impression that the dancers were dancing for themselves and the fun of it, which is something I seek, the fun of it, my interest in learning this dance. The lead chappy, Wes, was out on his own, quite apart from the others, I drew my own conclusions from that as the video I suppose not was originally meant to be promotional material. To be honest, he ruined it with his ass wiggling at the crowd and his interference on personal space. My remark about snobbery, which I understand some of you took wrong, well I do think a degree of snobbery does exist within ME dance, as it does with any art form, dance or otherwise. But everyone has to remember, those new to the art of ME dance see what they see and like what they like, whether it is good or bad, well, that decision can only come from experience. I am inexperienced, I see what I see and I liked, so I posted. Perhaps I was inexplicit with my OP, when I asked what others thought, but I was looking for constructive yays or nays, not the same comment from everyone with no constructive analysis. I want to know where I have chosen what can be considered to be wrong by the more experienced, and I want to know why, or else how am I or any other newbie supposed to learn. I sought out this forum to learn more about the dance other than the dance moves, as I believe contact with other like minds can only enhance what one learns. My apologies to those I have offended. Khanjar __________________ I am a dream to some...and a nightmare to others.