Tarik Sultan

You know, its obvious this whole thing about all male dance shows has become very hot on here. It's also obvious how I feel about it, not being one to mince words. I really don't feel that most of you out there feel that such shows are done out of a place of mean spiritedness towards you our sisters. I think you do understand that, as with the exception of one person, I've not seen anything to lead me to believe other wise.

I'm sitting here about to go to bed. I just finished watching a DVD Na Kamelei
The men of Hula. Its about an all male Hula school in Hawaii and many of the issues are so so identical to those faced by male Middle Eastern Dancers. Watching it was bitter sweet because if its one thing that you get from watching the program, its the camaraderie and feeling of brotherhood among the men. They have not excluded women from their dance lives many of them are married to women who dance Hula also or have their own schools, one of which is all female. But its having a place where they can share a different kind of energy with each other as men that isn't about competition, posturing or aggression. Where they are able to be around other men who know what it means to be men in this society. Guys they can relate to and share this special creative energy with.

You know something, as much as I love this dance and I love my sisters, I've never known what it was to have that brotherhood, that bonding. This is something that women in this dance take for granted. In our classes troupes you form relationships that go beyond dance time. You laugh, cry bitch and moan with other women who know and understand each other. We as men don't have that. And so while there is the issue of being excluded and discriminated against, there is also the issue for us guys of loneliness because no matter how much our sisters love us and include us, we both know that we can never connect on quite the same level. I just am saddened and angered that there are still elements in our community who can't look past their own selfish insecurities and prejudices to understand some of the potentially positive benefits that all male events give us, namely, they chance to fellowship with other guys. To not feel like the last of the Mohicans, to know we are not alone, to be able to share with someone else who knows what your experience is like. So if I start to show my fangs at times, its because of the total lack of consideration and inconsideration on the part of some people. I really am not trying to cause controversy, but I am angry because this is just one more hurdle we have to face. Its not bad enough that we have to defend ourselves against the ignorance of the masses, but we are not even totally safe in our own community from ignorance and insensitivity. I just hope that I will live long enough to see the day when the generations after me will not have to face these concerns.

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

Thanks for sharing Tarik! I've understood your messages from the beginning and at times, I don't understand the controversy. My background in dance has always been a social one. A place where men and women dance togehter, doing the same moves and getting into the groove!
I never thought about the lack of camaderie that men face and to be included and excluded at the same time is heart wrenching. I'm glad that you are ME dancer and each generation of male dancers have it a bit easier.
Yasmine

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jenc

I hadn't thought of the social aspect of it for you guys. I know a lot of bonding goes on at my groups.
I know also that most of your instruction has been from women and I know you are happy with that, but there must also be a co-learning thing from a male event?

adiemus

Thanks for posting this, Tarik. I personally have no problems with all-male shows - and from what I hear from my male colleagues (who work in health care with me), there is something about the non-competitive venues that males just very rarely get! Almost all male relating seems to be about one-up-manship, and sports only brings that out more, so it must be amazing to find a way to relate on a very different level.

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Caroline_afifi

Hi Tarik,

I dont know where to start with this. I understand exactly what you are saying and was trying to say it myself in other posts but ended up jumping all over the place as usual.
As you know, I am not one of those women who feel threatend in anyway. I have my own perspective on this. There are aspects I have outlined in the male dance scene which does make me feel uncomfortable as I have also discussed.

Beings Devils advocate here (and I may be way off base) but the woman who is objecting does feel a genuine fear around the all male show situation.
I hear a prediction of what this person has said in the past about Tribal and Fusions etc. becoming more than people ever imagined and threatening the dance as we know it.

It seems the same arguments and discussions took place in the same way over these topics too and no one listened but it happend.
I have debated why I dont think this will be the case, but really none of us know.
I dont fully know what the fear is about, as fears also have other roots.
But it is not hard to understand that women have been experiencing discrimination for .....eons, and particularly women of certain generation have had to fight for every little bit of equality whilst pig headed men have dominated and passed them off as silly women. Perhaps if we stand back we may see the root of the fears and the triggers.

These are type written posts at the end of the day and we rarely know the human being behind the keyboard. Thanks Tarik for your very personal insight to your feelings as it has give us a human perspective on this.
Perhaps we should try to consider the human behind the keyboard more often as I too am guilty of wanting to throw tomatos at the monitor.

We get very passionate about these topics and sometimes we end up feeling hurt and frustrated, but lets try to keep a perspective on this. It is a discussion forum and very few people say what they really mean.
These forums sound like they are speaking for the large majorities but they dont. Over the last few months I have realised it is really very few people and the rest just watch waiting for action and then PM people to load their guns so they come in shooting off for their entertainment.

I suppose what I am saying is, members discuss everything in any way we want but be aware of the bear baiters who feed off this.
And above all support each other and keep a realistic perspective on it.

lizaj

Some voices are louder and longer than others.
I can't see a problem with an all male show as long as it isn't regarded as a novelty..and I am sure you wouldn't want that either.
There are times when I enjoy all girl situations so it must be great for male dancers not to be in a situation where they are wildly outnumbered, where they can get togther to put forward a masculine message.
I would welcome an all male show coming to the UK as a fresh take on the dance and hope this soon happens. I just hope a female audience takes a serious perspective on the skill and effort of the cast.

And this middle aged..aw...sorry senior..I can't yet cope with getting over middle age...woman is honoured to be "backing" Khaled Mahmoud and Shafeek Ibrahim in the Liverpool Arabic Arts Dance Weekend.

Caroline_afifi

Backing.. backing??

there is no one backing!!

Detension for you at next rehearsal.

Sara

Deary me! What a lot has been said about this.

I think just as there are some encouragingly all female classes/shows, where women gather to feel comfortable and have a bond and share their experiences guy's really do need the same.

One thing I think when I see a 'female only' class is that they are making a big fuss over nothing. Think of how the poor guy is gunna feel being under the scrutiny of a class full of women. We can be more judgemental about men than they can of us. I never understand why a group full of women would feel intimidated by men in the class. More likely it is them who will feel more intimidated. I think we should encourage men to take part and enjoy dancing.

I don't see a problem with men all wanting to get together and dance and bond. Men need that as much as women. We are all human, and just because we have different bodies doesn't make our emotional and mental needs any different really. I don't see why a guy only thing is that bad.

I'm sure in Egypt guys all get together and dance, chat, have a laugh, just as women do.... might have to look that up actually cause they might not, but I'm sure at some point casually they must.

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Dipali

Dear Caroline,
You mean people do that in this forum.

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Caroline_afifi

I think it probably happens in all forums.

Most lurkers are undoubtedly harmless and are reading to gain information and follow discussions etc. but there are some who see it as some sort of sport I am sure. It becomes like Big Brother in Cyber Space.

I have noticed a few times that people have come on to forums to defend themselves after others have told them they are being discussed, then they dissapear again.
There is nothing wrong in defending yourself and presenting the facts as long as the informers are not overly sensationalising the issue in order to create one.

I think we all need to be aware of cyber bullying and the potential for it.
It is not something that happens here so much but on occasions I have felt it has been treading a fine line. There are people who dont like others in the field for whatever reason and love to see them being attacked or put in their place. I am speaking generally here and not in relation to anything specific to do with this particular forum.
I am all for freedom of speech and saying what we think about the dance (I am one for sure) but we need to be aware of spectators with other motives.

I am also aware that some people feel unable to express what they really think for fear of a backlash!