No hope - Page 12

Morocco · 06-20-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

And there is Afrah in Devon and she is hosting Tarik Next year!

She's actually hosting both of us & "Celebrate Dance" is held at the Toorak Hotel in Torquay (where, in addition to many fine classes & 2 great shows, the *food* is really great & 2 meals a day are included!). You coming???

I am the one who taught Tarik *&* Sergio (RIP) & several other male dancers, when even the male *teachers* in New York City weren't teaching men. which is beyond ludicrous since in Egypt & Turkey, the men get to dance socially far more than the women.

It's the SAME MOVEMENT VOCABULARY - it's just that we each bring our own individual "essences" (as it were) to it & no two bodies, even doing the same movements, ever look exactly the same. Thank God.

Aunt Rocky

P.S. Why didn't you come & say hello at Raks Britannia??

Morocco · 06-20-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

On Friday night at Raqs B, Ozgen who is a really nice guy and great entertainer performed his piece. Ok, he removed his tight shirt to reveal his bare midriff etc. but the women shrieked and wooped so much through his dance he had to signal to them to shush.

If this happend whilst a woman was dancing for an audience of men, everyone would be having a real go at the men and calling them for everything. Some women need to get a serious grip of themselves and stop whining about the behaviour of men whilst imitating them at their worst.

That IS what happened, but it was done in fun & taken in fun by all concerned. I asked him what that rope stuff was about. Totally other than what I thought, thank Heavens! But it was still a bit much.

However, I think that sort of behavior is overboard coming from whichever sex & totally a showoff to the other audience members. More like "The Full Monty". Remind me to tell you about the time I took a friend to see the Chippendale's (at her request) for her birthday.

I have NEVER been so embarrassed in my life, as I was at the horrendous behavior of my fellow females at that Chippendale show. YUCK!

Morocco

Morocco · 06-20-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanjar

Interesting point about the difference between ballet and ME dance and audience reaction.

Ballet has always been what has been considered to be a cultured performance where at one time,only the wealthier patrons could see, and so with this, it fostered a reserved level of applause.

Me style dance has been more of a show that the not so wealthy could see and so different levels of applause were tolerated.

Actually, NOT true. In Degas' day, ballet dancers were considered "demimondaines" - polite for whore.

It took Anna Pavlova to enchant the world, then Diaghilev's "Ballet Russes" to shock it, but finally, the Cold War & Ballanchine's well-funded (Lincoln Kirsten) ballet company to raise ballet to where it is today.

However, ONLY in the Basquelands of its origins was it a folk dance done & enjoyed by the "common folk", the way Raks still is today.

Quote:

Maybe it is this, coupled with the fact that males who dance in the western world were in the past scarce if not non existent and now as things have changed, males are seen as a novelty.

Novelties as we know attract attention.

Exactly! *Here* in the West - not *there* ...

Morocco
JUST back from Blackpool, UK &
who leaves for Egypt & Turkey in a couple of days.
Ah, the joys of continual jetlag. NOT!

Morocco · 06-20-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

I would rather see men dancing on a stage than holding a weapon on a battle field. I feel much less threatend by this.

Regards,
A'isha

AMEN! Now somebody get that idiot Twig & Chenazi into a dance class - that stupid tapdance sucked bigtime!

Aunt Rocky

Aisha Azar · 06-20-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morocco

AMEN! Now somebody get that idiot Twig & Chenazi into a dance class - that stupid tapdance sucked bigtime!

Aunt Rocky

Dearest M,
That quote was by Caroline, but my name ended up in there somehow. My response was that one does not offset the other. There are many men who dance AND go to war. There are also many men who dance during war. We need to see this aspect of dance from a male perspective a little bit, in order to get the whole picture. Women are too used to seeing dance from a place of being this nice thing that we do on stage. Historically, men have not always seen it that way. There are many cultures that have war dances and they are certainly prevalent in the Middle East.
Regards,
AA

Caroline_afifi · 06-20-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morocco

She's actually hosting both of us & "Celebrate Dance" is held at the Toorak Hotel in Torquay (where, in addition to many fine classes & 2 great shows, the *food* is really great & 2 meals a day are included!). You coming???

I am the one who taught Tarik *&* Sergio (RIP) & several other male dancers, when even the male *teachers* in New York City weren't teaching men. which is beyond ludicrous since in Egypt & Turkey, the men get to dance socially far more than the women.

It's the SAME MOVEMENT VOCABULARY - it's just that we each bring our own individual "essences" (as it were) to it & no two bodies, even doing the same movements, ever look exactly the same. Thank God.

Aunt Rocky

P.S. Why didn't you come & say hello at Raks Britannia??

Hi Rocky,
Yes I know you are going to Devon too, but Afrah was metioned as a teacher who actively supports men so Tarik was relevant to the discussion at this time.
I was sorry not to see you!
I was stuck at the stage for all of Friday night and 6 hours on Saturday, by the evening I was ready to hide in a darkend corner and missed the show. I was at the stage again all Sunday. This was what I was contracated to do and had very little time to move around.
Did you see me at all? I didnt see you even for a second in passing!!

As for Ozgen, I said he was an entertainer and it was fun, but when he did the 'shush' thing I thought he was offended at all the whooping or something.

PS I will try to see you at Ahlan, I am staying with Sara.

Caroline_afifi · 06-20-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dearest M,
That quote was by Caroline, but my name ended up in there somehow. My response was that one does not offset the other. There are many men who dance AND go to war. There are also many men who dance during war. We need to see this aspect of dance from a male perspective a little bit, in order to get the whole picture. Women are too used to seeing dance from a place of being this nice thing that we do on stage. Historically, men have not always seen it that way. There are many cultures that have war dances and they are certainly prevalent in the Middle East.
Regards,
AA

Historically you are totally right and in modern day terms, the hip hop and gang scene can be pretty aggressive too.

However a man with a stick doing hip drops?

mmm

I dont think MED would be the chosen art for war mongerers but if you know different please tell!!

Aniseteph · 06-20-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

As for Ozgen, I said he was an entertainer and it was fun, but when he did the 'shush' thing I thought he was offended at all the whooping or something.

I may be wrong but I think it's part of the act. If he doesn't like the response I am sure he's smart enough to have worked out why it happens by now, and tone things down a bit.

(My inner dirty old woman says noooooooo don't do that! he he he

)

Caroline_afifi · 06-20-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniseteph

I may be wrong but I think it's part of the act. If he doesn't like the response I am sure he's smart enough to have worked out why it happens by now, and tone things down a bit.

(My inner dirty old woman says noooooooo don't do that! he he he

)

Keep your under garments firmly in place

I would see knicker chucking as some form of punishment myself but hey ho.

ps
Me being daft didnt realise the 'shush' was part of the routine until Zorba mentioned it! whats this about? working women up into a frenzy then cooling them down again... ooh er mrs, no wonder the drawers come off.

Aisha Azar · 06-20-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

Historically you are totally right and in modern day terms, the hip hop and gang scene can be pretty aggressive too.

However a man with a stick doing hip drops?

mmm

I dont think MED would be the chosen art for war mongerers but if you know different please tell!!

Dear Caroline,
Actually, I can name Ardeh where guns and swords are used and the original purpose was to get men revved up to fight, certain Debkes were the same, and some of the dances of the Algerians and Moroccans of which I do not know the names, if they have any, that are Middle Eastern and are war dances. Egyptian men with sticks doing hip drops was definitely about fighting, if you remember correctly. In historical context, the men doing those dances were war mongers, and many still are. You know enough about Middle Eastern dance to know its true.
And if we are talking about belly dance in particular, I have not seen so many men involved in belly dance acting particularly peaceful when challenged in recent days. I have even seen women get pretty physically unfriendly, for example in that one video of Fifi ABdou, where she pushes some poor guy out of her way. The world of dance can be just as violent as war, and that goes for many different kinds of dance. Read Gelsey Kirkland's book if you want to read about the lovely world of ballet. Dance is not all peace and light, and men do not behave as saints just because they dance.
Regards,
A'isha